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Pillar of the Community
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775 Posts |
Hello Numismatists, I tried to tack this on at the end of a recent post I made in the coin grading forum for a very blue, smurflike 1803 dime. I really appreciated the discussion on this coin, during which some parties described the toning as natural (envelope toning maybe?) while others described it as QC or AT. NGC straight graded the coin at MS(61), but it's likely that whoever owned it tried to cross it at PCGS and wasn't able to (hence my calling this coin a "details" coin in the subject). This speculation isn't based on fact--I know little about the coin's pedigree, I'm just assuming because a PCGS cross would probably increase the value dramatically, so it must have been tried before, right? I also saw this PCGS MS(67)+ 1805 (4 Berries) dime with similar blue toning, albeit much better fields. I have seen neither coin in person. Here are my questions: 1) Do you see differences in the toning on these two coins that makes one "natural" and one "questionable?" If so, can you explain the difference? I am trying to learn about toning. 2) Is it possible these coins once were storied together in the same collection and acquired their toning together?       Edited by Adam590
09/04/2026 4:33 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4496 Posts |
Those two coins have the same toning. When I look at the holder photos, the toning looks natural on both coins with a tint of a darker blue. My guess is that both coins in hand do not look like the pastel blue toning glamor photos from PCGS True View and NGC PhotoVision Plus. Below is one of my photos of a blue toned Trade dollar graded by PCGS and stickered by CAC. The photo is what the coin looks like in hand. I have to admit that I do not know how the coin below was stored to tone blue.  Edited by Slider23
09/04/2026 6:00 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
775 Posts |
Thanks, @Slider23. That Trade dollar is cool. I am hoping someone more familair with toning can weigh in with a theory for how this toning can come about--it doesn't look like album toning. I'm also wondering if there is another reason this coin hasn't crossed yet if PCGS is fine with the toning (as evidenced by the MS(67)+ grade on the 1805 dime. |
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Pillar of the Community
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Pillar of the Community
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I am unsure of the cause of the toning, but the coin in question is one of only two graded in Mint State by NGC (one One MS61 and one MS64) and one in Mint State by PCGS (MS63). The coin in question was recently sold by Stacks-Bowers in 2024 for $22,800.00 and this year at Heritage for $25,620.00. A CAC sticker would increase the market value but cross over to PCGS would not have a significant increase. Sales are so infrequent that the price is more determinant on the buyers interested in the coin and given the infrequent sales over the years it is likely a limited buyers market.
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Pillar of the Community
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2309 Posts |
This coin would neither cross or sticker imho. Not a fan
You realize when you know how to think, it empowers you far beyond those who know only what to think.
-Neil deGrasse Tyson
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Pillar of the Community
United States
775 Posts |
@freespeech57--thanks for the background.
@numismaticsFTW--thans for chiming in. For my own curiosity, what do you least like about the coin? How do you think it got that toning? And if you think the 1803 dime is AT, do you think the 1805 dime is also AT? If not, what's the difference?
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Pillar of the Community
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4496 Posts |
I was reading that envelope toning can produce the blue toning on both sides of the coin like both of the examples shown. My Trade dollar also has blue toning on both sides. |
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5712 Posts |
Both look natural to me, possibly stored in similar environments, but it would be a stretch to think they might be from the same collection. I also wouldn't assume that the 1803 failed to cross over at PCGS without knowing the history. Perhaps it started as a straight graded PCGS AU-58, and crossed over to NGC. Or whoever submitted it raw to NGC just had a preference for their holders. I think neither coin has strong enough colorful toning to make a difference in value, despite their appearance in the glamor shots.
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Replies: 8 / Views: 329 |
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Posted 09/05/2026 01:46 am
