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 Replies: 11 / Views: 244 |
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Moderator
 Australia
17031 Posts |
I was posting in the recent "Numismatic Demographics" thread when something occurred to me, and I didn't want to derail that thread with these musings over there. So here we go...
It is well known, both inside America and among numismatists elsewhere in the world, that American coin collectors are highly parochial - they tend to only collect American coins. This is of course a generalization, but nevertheless seems to be proven out by the data. Just look at the floorplan of any major national coin show, and see the tiny proportion of the show that's been allocated to non-US coins. Indeed, the term "darksider" (meaning world/foreign coin collector) was coined by American collectors themselves a couple of decades ago on the coin forums specifically because of the unusual-ness of collecting non-US coins, with the observation that "most American coin collectors know more about the dark side of the Moon than they know about foreign coins".
Now, it must be said that this can probably be said of pretty much every country: most coin collectors within that country are probably going to be most interested in their own country's coins. But America seems to have taken this basic principle to an extreme level.
So the question might well be asked: why? What makes America different?
As a non-American observer, it would be easy to jump to the old trope, "it's just Americans being Americans". But I do think there's a deeper explanation at work than just regular American exceptionalism.
I was watching a YouTube video the other day, posted by a European who now lived in America. They pointed out that, in terms of travelling overseas, Americans seemed to be far less likely to visit or live in another country than your average European. Most Americans they'd met had simply never been to any other country. And this YouTuber wondered why, since most of these Americans were wealthy enough to be able to afford to travel overseas if they wanted to. Then they came up with an answer I had never considered before.
America is a very large country. And a very diverse one, both culturally and geographically. If you want to experience "another culture", it's very easy to simply go to a different part of the US, and experience a very different culture. If someone from Minnesota wanted to experience a warm beach, or tropical swamp, or desert, or majestic snowy mountains, they could do so quite easily without even leaving the mainland 48 states. All the exotic-ness you could want, without ever crossing an international border and the accompanying "culture shock" that international travel normally brings.
Compare this with, say, England. If an Englishman wants to experience any of those aforementioned climates in England, they're out of luck, because England doesn't have them. So they're used to tripping off to Spain or the south of France for a holiday in the sun, or a trip to the Swiss Alps for a bit of skiing. It's become normalized.
The same can be said for anywhere else in Europe, or even a place like Australia, which is much the same size as the US but is much more culturally and geographically homogenous.
So, what does this have to do with coin collecting?
As I pointed out in that demographics thread, most coin collectors have historically "got their spark" - the thing that kicked them off in coin collecting - from seeing an unusual coin, and then finding a few more, and a few more, to encourage the spark and start a flame going. That could either be some old obsolete coins from their own country, or it could be foreign coins, thus giving rise to the two different kinds of collector. And if you're in Europe, or Australia, or Asia, then you've probably got a pretty good chance of encountering foreign coins.
But if you're in a country like America, which sees relatively little overseas travel, that exposure to foreign coins is going to be very limited. If you won't go overseas yourself, and your friends and family probably won't either, then your chances of actually encountering any foreign coins are actually quite low. So, many of the people who might theoretically have become world coin collectors simply don't, because they can't - they just never see any of those foreign coins that people in the rest of the world are routinely exposed to.
So, that's my hypothesis. Any opinions? Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Valued Member
United States
306 Posts |
Two points: #1. I can anecdotally attest to a relative lack of interest in traveling, let alone traveling overseas among my fellow Americans. For every acquaintance, friend or family member who travels regularly, I can probably name 10 who don't. That said #2. My wife and I are avid world travelers, and, yes, I have a small collection of coins and currency because of it.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
19684 Posts |
These days, I'm not an active overseas traveler. Last outing was to the Virgin Islands (US and BVI) several years ago. My interest in world coins began decades ago when going trough a small collection of pieces gathered by family members who served in WWII and the Korean War. I'm primarily a collector of US material, but I do have several 'generic' Dansco albums devoted to common world coins. About 85+% were obtained through bulk purchases.
I agree with your closing statement... So, many of the people who might theoretically have become world coin collectors simply don't, because they can't - they just never see any of those foreign coins that people in the rest of the world are routinely exposed to.
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Bedrock of the Community
United Kingdom
19168 Posts |
Very interesting observations. My parents took me on holidays to European countries from a very young age, and living in the far south-east of England, day trips to France were hardly more exotic than going to London. I started collecting foreign coins at the same time as I started collecting coins in general.
I would say however that most collectors are more interested in the coins of their own country. I've lived in Spain and France and visited coin shops, coin fairs and collectors' markets in both countries, and have noticed quite a big change in the past 25 years. Since the introduction of the Euro, many collectors are now trying to get full sets of Euro coins from each country, whereas before 2002 they only collected their own country's coins. Obviously they now get German, Austrian, Belgian etc. coins in change that they didn't before, and there are lots of circulating commemorative €2 coins. This interest doesn't extend to going back and getting pre-2002 coins from 'foreign' countries: Euro coins from Monaco, the Vatican City and San Marino are selling for many times their face value, whereas pre-Euro coins from those countries, even those with much lower mintages, aren't collected to anything like the same extent.
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Moderator
United States
110115 Posts |
Well, I for one am an avid Foreign coin collector - this started way back in the early1980's when I had the chance to travel all over Europe and then the Southeast Asia region in the late '80's
and I still DO collect world coins (as a few may have noticed)
But for the majority of Americans that never travel, probably never even considered that world coins are a worthy endeavor to peruse. You see collecting American coins in America is just plain easier.
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Moderator
United States
198004 Posts |
A wonderful musing, Sap!  Quote:
America is a very large country. And a very diverse one, both culturally and geographically. If you want to experience "another culture", it's very easy to simply go to a different part of the US, and experience a very different culture. This.  I can speak to the diversity of our country. I moved around a lot when I was growing up—14 times in ten different states. Moving, vacations, and traveling "back home" to the Chicago area often took us through many different states, depending on where we lived at the time. My "spark" came from the Ikes my father gave me. I realized that coins can come from other countries because at that time I lived in a state that bordered Canada and it was common to find Canadian coins in our change. My mother fueled my collecting with books and supplies, and among her purchases were "World Coin" grab bags from the LCS (which, after 40+ years are finally being shared here). My other foreign coins have come from family and friends who had brought them from abroad knowing I would appreciate them. They were appreciated, but I did not continue pursuing them on my own, preferring to fill my Dansco albums of US coins. Now that most of those are (almost) complete I have started looking outward. |
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Valued Member
United States
479 Posts |
For me, personally, I did a lot of international travel in Asia and Europe over about a 20 year period but except for one time in Germany where I purchased some mint sets at a bank I was not interested in collecting coins. It was a non-collecting timeframe for me. I suspect the bulk of Americans that do international travel are not collectors. No idea of the demographics, though.
My renewed interest in collecting in the past 4 years or so has focused on US, Canadian and UK modern issues (shiny silver stuff) then tariffs happened. I am a hiatus until that annoyance goes away. Besides, the US Mint is bankrupting me these days anyway.
I do have ongoing interest in Panamanian coins that I can find domestically and continue there.
Aside from the above, I have no excuse. I am also a stamp collector and my international interest there was much broader but tariffs also smashed my new issues pursuits, even trading internationally was impacted.
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Moderator
United States
198004 Posts |
Quote:
Besides, the US Mint is bankrupting me these days anyway. Aint that the truth.  |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
8076 Posts |
Interesting discussion.
Yes, I think there is a link between American coin collecting preferences and our exposure to other cultures. For the record, 26% of Americans have visited 5 or more countries. A similar percentage have never left the U.S (Soiurce: Pew). For most large European nations, the comparative figure on travel to multiple countries in is in the 50% (France, Italy) to 70% (UK, Germany) range. While we may have the means to do so, remember that the bar to act on it is quite a bit higher. Other than Canada, Mexico or the Caribbean, we have to stick ourselves in a metal tube for the 6 or more hours it takes to get across an ocean, where we will be greeted by signage we can't understand, strange food that we don't recognize and even people who drive on the wrong side of the road! Of course, Canadians have the same hurdle, and the statisics show them to be more like Europeans in their international travel habits.
But I don't think we Americans are usually seeking a different cultural experience when we travel within the U.S. (though it was generous to provide such an excuse). More the opposite. Most of us stay in chain hotels, eat at chain restaurants, and appreciate that we never have to learn a single word in another language (except maybe New England english which is wicked strange). I suspect 1/3 of the country is within a one day drive to another country (Canada or Mexico...AI failed me on coming uo with a figure or even a ballpark, which is pretty sad). It would be interesting to see where the 24% who never leave the country are located, to give a hint on whether the cause is more geographic or socioeconomic (or just a lack of curiosity). Lastly, if we really wanted to visit a REALLY different culture without leaving the US, the Navaho nation would be overrun with tourists.
It's also true that we burn a lot of miles just to visit family. Both of my brothers are 500 miles away, and my kids are over 1200 miles away. My wife's siblings are all over 500 miles away (sounds like we should move). It's easy to feel like you travel a heckuva lot just to have face time with family.
So, yeah, I'm one of the outliers. Like Dearborn, I've spent some years of my life abroad, and have based parts of my collection on the history of those places ... A great way to link (and continue to learn about) their culture with my hobby.
Edited by tdziemia
Yesterday 5:25 pm
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Moderator
United States
34572 Posts |
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Other than Canada, Mexico or the Caribbean, we have to stick ourselves in a metal tube for the 6 or more hours it takes to get across an ocean @tdz, Cunningham's Law means that I get to tell you about a French Overseas Collectivity located here in North America: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint...and_MiquelonI know because I'm currently flying their flag outside my house to help celebrate the anniversary of their discovery by Joao Alvarez Fagundes in 1520. I almost exclusively fly the flag of US states and countries that I've visited. "If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Pillar of the Community
United States
951 Posts |
Are Canadian coins considered foreign to the US?  When I was young, it was far easier and less expensive to collect Canadian coins, and I could pick up silver dimes at melt value. I couldn't afford the larger denominations in silver, but being in relatively close proximity to Canada, we got plenty of non-silver, as well as some silver (mostly dimes) Canadian coins in circulation. My father took me to the local coin club meetings, and there were many WWI, WWII, and Korean War Veterans, and a few fathers of active-duty Vietnam military personnel. There were auctions every meeting and there were a lot of foreign coins available. Also, Littleton was running ads in many diverse publications to entice you to sign up for their service at ten cents for 10 coins (foreign coins). I was permitted to try that and got some really nice foreign coins and currency that way. A majority of my high-end foreign coins were inherited - originally bought from the Franklin Mint and Royal Canadian Mints. In addition, many relatives would obtain coins abroad and would give them to me. There were many in those clubs that focused on British and UK coins, and they would sell excess and liquidation collections at those auctions. I have pretty much given up on the US mint offerings unless it is something I find extremely interesting. As others have stated, their pricing is well beyond casual affordability. Edited by PlumCrazy814
Today 10H 19M ago
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5915 Posts |
Quote:
...Both of my brothers are 500 miles away, and my kids are over 1200 miles away. My wife's siblings are all over 500 miles away (sounds like we should move). ... If you travel that far in most continents or countries you will pass through multiple other countries. The "spaciousness" of the US probably contributes to our isolation from, and travel to other countries. I would say the closer one gets to the center of the country the less likely a person is to travel to other countries for a variety of reasons. Limited exposure to other cultures limits interest.My interest in collecting coins began early because my dad collected US "blue Books" of common denominations from what he found in change. I did the same early on & then took a hiatus of 4 decades. The spark to get back into collecting was because of an internet ad & my interest in Lincoln cents. IMHO, we tend to focus our hobbies on what items or information we have access to. Words of encouragement are one of the major food groups.
We need to consume them regularly to thrive and grow.
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