Sellers Still Stating Returns Are Minus S&h + "Stocking Fee"

I dont allow returns to avoid the hassle. Everything I sell though is as described with pictures of both sides and most of my coins are slabbed. But the biggest reason I dont allow returns is that you lose money on them as a seller. ebay still takes money from the postage fee even if you charge actual cost so everything you ship you lose money on and I have no interest in losing money because someone changed their mind 2 weeks later.

Not entirely, due to ebay and pay pal fees the seller loses money on every item shipped.

If you send the wrong thing or its broken yes you should refund the whole thing, if however the buys changes their mind or doesn't want it anymore the seller shouldnt be out money on shipping because of that. No one forced the buyer to make the purchase and more than likely there were other people bidding that could have had it instead.

I get what youre saying but personal responsibility has to come into it as well. If you made the decision to buy the item and have it shipped to you someone else shouldnt be out money because of youre mistake just like if the seller makes the mistake the buyer shouldnt have to pay for return shipping

Dont get me wrong I hate deceptive listings myself. And for high value coins definitely think that pictures of both sides should be there, really for all coins now since ebay gives you more than 1 image free now.

But at the same time I still think its an instance where the buyer should know better. If you can only see one side I always assume the other side isn't being shown for a reason. You can only protect people so much and at some point the fault does have to start being put on the buyer for deciding to make the purchase.

But personally I think the biggest issue with ebay is the doctored up photos which make things looks MUCH better than they really are. Its also one of the reasons I only buy slabbed on there and when I sell I just use my cell phone camera which makes the coins look worse then they look in hand, but no one could ever accuse me of posting a better image than it looks like.

I appreciate good images, but there comes a point where you know theyve put so much effort into the image the coin probably doesn't look that good. Good quality coins will sell themselves and shouldnt need professional quality photographs to look good

Well said, snowman! Sometimes I refuse to even bid if a sellers terms are not to my liking, but sometimes I might take a chance and I understand the risk I'm taking. Caveat Emptor!

The germane question is do you think buyer's protection covers things like "no rev pic" as being "not as described"?

If so, and I and several others who posted in this thread do, then their stated return policy is not consistent with buyer's protection and they should not be allowed to state they don't do returns or will keep certain fees when that isn't their RIGHT by ebay rules.

If not, and anyone buying "blindly" from no pics ( or extrapolating that to BAD PICS ) must buy in to those stated policies and are not covered by buyer's protection when they do so, then ebay should state that "exception" to their buyer's protection!

I understand that some of you claim to get bargains by bad pics and bad policy that scares away other bidders. I personally am not willing to take that risk UNLESS I have the option of returning for full refund if the bad pics etc. were indeed hiding major flaws ( which IMO is more than a rare occurance ). Sometimes it is just an inexperienced or "amateur" seller who doesn't have the skills or equipment to make good pics, and in those cases I'd agree with you that the risk can be worth the hassle of returning some of them. But I still don't think it justifies any sellers keeping part of the sale price in that case.

The seller risks being out s&h when they don't post clear and complete pics and descriptions. Just as the buyer risks "return shipping" when they buy from less-than-perfect ads. That is the agreed-to and acceptable risks both take. But adding the seller's s&h ( plus a re-stock fee ) is not part of that "deal". Some think it should be or IS, but that is what I completely disagree with!

Many times the bad/no pics are intentional and aimed to "trick" and cheat buyers. It is those cases where I most object to having the seller allowed to keep ANYTHING or try to cheat 10% out of "suckers" who take their bait. And just because I may not "fall for it", that doesn't mean I don't object to it in principle. IMO, that is what aboncom and this seller and many others are attempting. IMO, it is no coincidence that the same ones that scrub and use stock pics or won't show both sides are the ones trying a "10% re-stocking" scam. That is what it is! Sellers who don't rip off others don't, and shouldn't, resort to such tactics and tricks.

If the seller had responded by both posting a rev pic AND removing their policy from the ad then I would have considered that coin. Instead, they futher revealed themselves as the "expletive deleted" awful seller they are by their reply and not amending the ad. They, and others, are very obviously trolling for marks and suckers. IMO, they shouldn't be allowed to!

No. The buyer needs to have some common sense. If a seller does not show a picture of the reverse then they are either lazy, deceptive or inexperienced. That much should be clear to any collector.

You don't forfeit your right to return it NAD unless you don't like something that wasn't described. I'm failing to see why it is so hard to grasp this concept. Here are my thoughts:

1. There are unscrupulous sellers all over ebay. Unless you know what you are doing, be prepared to learn lessons the hard way. it is what it is, sorry. We can report the obvious scumbags as someone like Scubu does when they are breaking rules, but others just have no morals but do nothing wrong as far as the rules.

2. If I am buying a car on ebay and the only pictures are on one side of the car, with absolutely no description except that it runs and drives great, what should I do? Buy it and expect that both sides look the same? What happens if the other side is dented and damaged once I receive it? Your position is that I should be able to return it? IMO, absolutely not. I don't care if it was my dream car and I just got screwed over, if I didn't ask for pictures of everything I was buying, it's my fault, period. To me, this is a "no if's, and's, or but's" type scenario. Don't like it or think it's wrong, don't bid on it.

Please don't take my post as harsh or coming across the wrong way, but it is YOUR responsibility for protecting yourself. Relying on ebay to do it with any of their rules/policies is just naive, sorry.

No offense but I actually dont find it reasonable to assume both sides will match. A large amount of coins have very different looking sides.

Furthermore NAD doesn't cover youre assumptions which is what you are basically asking it to do by saying well the one side looked good so I assumed the other did so the item isn't as I assumed it would have been described.

People that buy with one 1 side pictured arent forfeiting their right to NAD protection, but they also arent gaining the right of having NAD applied to their assumptions or subjective descriptions.