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 Replies: 171 / Views: 41,486 |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
4594 Posts |
Quote:
"CAREFUL HANDLING.
The customer's coins will be returned to the customer in the same condition they were in when the customer delivered them to the authorized dealer." Interesting double standard - you quote something from the web site as if it was holy writ, you ignore the clearly written legal limitations on the signed contract... Now the dealer is an independent contractor, your recourse - if any - is with him/her and his/her insurance. -----Burton 50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973) Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983) Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/ |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1949 Posts |
Also from the PCGS submission form:
"12. If any coins are being submitted for a third party, Customer represents and warrants that such third party has agreed and accepted this Agreement and has signed a duplicate copy hereof where indicated. Customer agrees to provide that third party-signed copy to PCGS at any time upon its request."
Sounds like the dealer didn't get that from you either
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7840 Posts |
What type of equipment would PCGS use to cause this
type of damage?
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Pillar of the Community
872 Posts |
if I would have to guess, like I did in me earlier post, I'd say they had to break the coin out of another slab. maybe the other slab was really really close for the coin to fit, and they sealed it. Then after the sealing, they relized it was not right, presentation wise, maybe the coin was too loose or too tight on the holder. So they had to break the holder and put the coin in a new slab. Thats the only way I can see a coin getting damage like that. The only small remote possibility is the coin actally had an undetected fracture, then a worker drops it and the coin shatters. IF I were a betting man, I'd go with a crack out of a PCGS case and the coin taking damage that way...... The PCGS slabs are the hardest of them all to crack open, and I don't know if there is a "simpler way" that PCGS does to make a crack out of a coin more pleasant.  Edited by Collector-Corner
11/07/2013 3:05 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Something had to peel it back presumably the holder. Having handled them before cracking things out I just don't see how those could open a coin like a tuna can without some underlying (maybe undetected) flaw in the plancet being present. Metal is just stronger than plastic.
I'd also have to agree the frustration should be directed at that dealer for putting it down for 15 dollars being cheap with insurance. If you'd agreed with him for a 300-500 value then he didn't uphold his end of the deal.
Those dealers aren't agents in anyway. They're just people who can submit. The locator on their website is really just that and nothing more. It's not an endorsement of them.
It's awful that ended up happening. I would strongly suggest for the future getting your own subscription and handling your own submissions. I would definitely be going to that dealer as well and seeing how he'll rectify the fact that his attempt to save 20 cents on insurance cost you hundreds. That is directly his fault.
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Pillar of the Community
 Australia
539 Posts |
" It's not an endorsement of them"
I disagree, it is exactly that, PCGS website actively promotes their use and states that they have a PCGS authorised dealer code of ethics that I can rely upon when using them
"Interesting double standard - you quote something from the web site as if it was holy writ, you ignore the clearly written legal limitations on the signed contract..."
I neve signed nor was provide with any contract limiting my right of recovery to $15. if I was them I would have stated that I wanted it covered for more.
this is PCGS fault, they are the once that damaged the coin, encouraged me to use the third party for submitting and now have erased the grading from there system rather than deal with it like ethical people.
If they can cancel my certificate without authority or repercussion they can cancel anyone's!
so I would suggest you don't ever annoy them or you might find the coins that you have submitted in the past cannot be verified as real
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
They canceled your cert because it's obviously not correct and would be canceled upon resubmission. Technically anyone with a pcgs membership is an authorized submitter to them it's just that individuals wouldn't want to be listed on their website.
While pcgs may have damaged the coin they aren't the ones who filled out the form trying to save money which is what that dealer did.
I'd be upset as well if I were in your shoes. I'd be most upset though with the dealer for creating that situation. Had you put the right value they likely would have given the proper value for it.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4594 Posts |
Quote:
I neve signed nor was provide with any contract limiting my right of recovery to $15. if I was them I would have stated that I wanted it covered for more.
So once again, the submitting dealer didn't follow the requirements and have you sign the submission form... so your complaint is with him and his insurance company. What does the dealer say? -----Burton 50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973) Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983) Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/ |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
Sell it to somebody for MS64 money and let them return it to PCGS under their grade guarantee for a refund.
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
Quote:
Sell it to somebody for MS64 money and let them return it to PCGS under their grade guarantee for a refund.
This is not as harebrained as it might sound. In fact, it's probably the best course for your dealer to take, if they wish to retain any integrity. As valid as your argument is against PCGS for causing the damage, you have no financial recourse against them because of the dealer's action in valuing the coin at $15. Your beef is with the dealer, who should have been smart enough to overvalue this coin since its' such an unknown rarity in the grade. You did, after all, cough up the fee to cover grading a coin of the correct value. You will find nothing but frustration by pursuing the matter totally with PCGS (assuming litigation between Aus-USA is even possible). They can brush you aside in litigation, and they will. You need to use that word - litigation - with the dealer. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1959 Posts |
What surprises me about this situation, legalities aside, is that a large corporation such as PCGS, whose sole business is built on trust and reputation, would not offer a solution that is "fair". To damage a coin and offer the submitter $15 is an insult. I don't give a rip about the legal crud. What about doing the right thing? Seems to me the price of bad publicity will/is costing more than $400-500. I own a business and I've "ate" a lot more profit for a "lot less trouble" many times and I've always been happy I did. They should stop being "policy" idiots and do what is right for once.
Rant over. The end.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1080 Posts |
I'm with jpbone here. There's a concept in the law that your ethical standards should be greater then or equal to the legal standards. In other words, PCGS may be legally obligated to pay $15, but there's nothing preventing them from paying more.
Now, we have talked about the undervaluation of the coin on the paperwork which was, perhaps, designed to save on insurance fees. However, is this one of those categories of coins where PCGS's fees are based, in part, on the estimated value of the coin?
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Pcgs does have different prices for different coin values. If the coin was properly valued it would have had to have been sent in the regular service which is more expensive. Anything over 300 has to go in the higher service which gets done faster. With the value that was put it could have been sent in either since they usually aren't sticklers about a coin going in the lower if you undervalue it and the price is close.
Their insistence on the customer value for payout is likely just as much about people trying to skirt submission fees as anything else.
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
539 Posts |
it was sent and paid for as a regular service as I knew the coin to be worth more than $300. it was sent with a number of other coins worth far more. with all the postal, pcgs fees and fees charged by the PCGS authorised dealer it cost me some $60 aud to get the thing graded.
PCGS offering me $15 was just plain stupid.
I also agree that it was in PCGS best interest to offer a fair price for the damaged coin. now it will cost them far more in bad publicity than I was asking
and note that I gave them a decent amount of time to be reasonable before I posted the issue up on this site. PCGS could have kept me quiet but they chose not to
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Knowing what that dealer charged you I would absolutely take it up with him and spread the word if he doesn't take the loss for the situation he caused. Had it been properly valued you should have at least been properly compensated.
PCGS only charges 33.81 aus (32 US) for a regular submission. Its been a long time since I've sent something to AUS but theres no way a 15 dollar insurance add on cost anywhere close to the extra 26.19 he charged you. If he was sending a lot of higher value coins your coins impact on the return shipping price would have been non existent since they charge based on 10 coin intervals for international shipping up to 60 coins. Over 60 coins is a 1.40US per coin to Aus. The only way you could have impacted that is if your coin was the 11th, 21th, 31st, 41st, 51st or 61st. Any other number and it cost the exact same with or without your coin for return shipping.
Thats also assuming it really was regular service. I wouldnt just take his word for it if thats the only proof you have of how it was sent considering how he valued it. The turn around times are similar for world coins between the two levels but the cheaper one is only 20 US a coin.
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Replies: 171 / Views: 41,486 |
First Page
Posted 11/07/2013 2:08 pm
