Toning Alters Coins Surface

The guys got tired of counting so they quit at 70! I to favor About Good, Good, Very Good, Fine, Very Fine, Extremely Fine, AU and Unc. but those simple designations would stop the price gouging from one MS- grade to the next. We have all seen it! MS63 is $50 and MS 64 is $2000 yet no one can tell you why other than the fact fewer have been graded in that grade. Seems to me the grading companies, who are in the business of selling high grade coins in one way or another, besides just offering their slabbing service have put them selves in the position to CREATE markets and all they needed was a little time to convince collectors that they were right and we were wrong. Before long they could actually get $100 bucks for a state hood quarter just because SOMEONE says it's a high grade coin. The only people who will loose, if and when this bubble bursts, is the little guys as the grading companies have already got their money. The plastic coffins for modern day coins are just that! Coffins many collectors will get buried with!

Terry and Mike have hit the nail on the head with their responses!!

Rick

I have to throw my Two Cents in here. I just can't resist so please take it as you will but not personally.

The whole matter of coin toning is really very simple. Toning is a form of oxidation and does progress if not stopped. If you like to call it a Mint State or not doesn't really matter. The buyer and seller, both, can see if a coin is toned or not. They can decide if they want to buy it or not or sell it or not. You don't need to change the grade but simply state MS-65 Toned will work fine.

Some folks like toning and some don't. Some folks believe that a coin, properly cleaned, is just fine while others are shocked at the thought. Here is the option. Collect what you like. You don't need to justify it. I have purchased cleaned and toned coins just because I like the way the coin looked I don't pay too much attention to all the rehortic I hear. Collecting should be a fun thing not a matter of "What's worth more". The value of a coin has been, and always will be, established by what the general market is willing to pay for it.

I hope I didn't offend anyone as that was not my intent. I'm just stating, right or wrong, my position.

catman

Hi everyone! I think all of us posting here and elsewhere always show respect for other folks opinions. This is how we get to see things and think about things from many views. As always a great learning experience. Thanks to all! Mike

My apologies for taking a week to participate, but the great hunt for computer problem solutions has kept me quite busy. Here’s a few of my thoughts on other’s comments, and like catman’s they are only my opinion.

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Originally posted by longnine009
Hey JD do you still have the link to your black beauty nickel?

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No sir, it wasn’t mine. It belongs to Ray and it’s in a glass case that he chooses not to open so a really good image is out of the question. Maybe I’ll acquire one someday. After all, I do know the person who claims to have “cooked� at least 90% of those on the market, slabbed and raw. (Cooked as used here doe not refer to the use of heat.) I know his background and the process used so I believe he probably did exactly what he said. Unfortunate, but that’s life.

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Originally posted by Mike
Maybe I'm missing the point, by why does oxidation of the metal on coins cause such a controversy? Many have pointed out it is natural, it does damage the surface and eventually if left unchecked can really ruin the appearance of the coin. This debate is very interesting because science is crossing paths with asthetics and after all beauty truly is in the "eye of the beholder"!

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Why does it cause such controversy? IMHO, it's the old “mine is better than yours� attitude, even if it’s only subconscious. I’ve been hearing the word “damaged� used by blast white collectors for more years than I can image. It seems they’re constantly trying to convince everyone that it’s the ONLY thing to collect. Possibly to keep the values of those coins increasing. It’s always about money (pun intended). They’re damaged! Oh paleaseeeee!

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Originally posted by Metalman
I was looking thru his rotating display case, and I see within a Morgan dollar in an old PCGS slab, now the grade on this coin was MS-65 ,, the coin was beautifully toned,, but the slab did not carry any designation that it was toned when slabbed, My Mind went to this thread and I asked about the coin and the toning, the dealers reply , the coin was not toned when slabbed, but the result of years within the slab ,, I asked what the grade reduction was and the resulting price difference would be?

He said( the grade is on the slab as is the price !!!!!)

I guess he hasnt heard that toning is damage!!!

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I don’t think the cost is going to go down just because a coin is toned, whether it was toned in the slab or not. There are simply too many collectors that find toning appealing and if they have the funds the cost doesn’t seem to matter a lot.

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Originally posted by Mike
Buy from your friends and from those you know and trust who don't fall over and chase every fad that comes down the road. Be patient and even this fad will pass, in fact, based on the concerns expressed in this thread it may be happening now!

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Yes, the fad is cyclic and the best time to buy is when it is “out of phase�. But, just like plaid golf pants, it will return. All it takes is a younger generation of collectors to discover it (again) and off we go again on rabbit’s wild ride.

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Originally posted by Metalman
I happen to agree with longnine, the collectors are at the mercy of the whims and views of the selected few when it comes to things like this,, and it can cost the collector many dollars based on their whims .

it can also make many thousands of dollars for the right people of influence !!

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Yes again, if one listens to the whims and views of what is popular. Just because you (or a group) like to collect a particular coin is no reason for me to like it too. But, it’s also taken nearly 40 years for me to develop my own collecting ideas and not be concerned about what others think.

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Originally posted by catman
Some folks like toning and some don't. Some folks believe that a coin, properly cleaned, is just fine while others are shocked at the thought. Here is the option. Collect what you like. You don't need to justify it. I have purchased cleaned and toned coins just because I like the way the coin looked I don't pay too much attention to all the rehortic I hear. Collecting should be a fun thing not a matter of "What's worth more". The value of a coin has been, and always will be, established by what the general market is willing to pay for it.

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Collect what you like. What a clever idea! I wonder why I never thought of that? Someone should write that down.

Seriously. I’ve never purchased a toned coin and paid a premium for it. My philosophy is, “Another will be along soon.� And unless you’re collecting in the rare coin market, it pretty much holds true. Also, most of my coins I image on my web site have been gifts to me.

Lastly, I have truly enjoyed reading and participating in this thread. Thank you for everyone’s point of view. JDW

Hey JDW, I have one question about your replys to others posts. Paleaseeee!!!!tell me the difference between.... But, it’s also taken nearly 40 years for me to develop my own collecting ideas and not be concerned about what others think...and...Collect what you like. You don't need to justify it. Sounds the same to me! Mike