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 Replies: 38 / Views: 4,994 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1126 Posts |
samsnate,
The video series you linked is one the the best educational tools I have come across to explain to people in layman's terms the facts of and differences between MONEY and CURRENCY.
Something that should be taught to every child in elementary school. But they do not teach even at the college level unless you are in a specialized class and get lucky
Stand by what you have learned and continue to research and learn.
Listen to all and follow none.
Do what is right for you and your family. Normalcy Bias is rampant (The belief that everything has always been ok with the monetary system. so everything will remain ok.) the events of the past few years since the crash of 2008 say otherwise.
and remember these absolutely undisputed facts of history.
1. Gold and Silver have been Money for over 3000 years of human history.
2. The Dollar has been a Purely Fiat Currency since August 15th 1971.
3. The has never in the History Of Mankind been a Purely Fiat Currency that has survived.....EVER
Edited by stewart
12/19/2013 9:14 pm
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Valued Member
United States
410 Posts |
Anjohl: The only problem with your statement is that silver has a very poor long term track record as a stable store of value. Look at the following chart. It shows what would happen if someone purchased an ounce of silver back in 1913 when the CPI started and held it for 100 years. In 14 of the 20 5 year periods that person would have lost money. On top of that losing track record is the huge variability of the price. Silver is not stable nor does it have a track record of holding value over time. Silver happens to be up at the moment.  The sport price is the yearly average from Kitco. The inflation rate is from the CPI calculator. Edited by JSH
12/19/2013 9:32 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1823 Posts |
Since I quit smoking over 2 years ago I started buy gold and silver instead of cigarettes .SO if you smoke quit and use the money to buy gold and silver.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1126 Posts |
And an example from someone of how the value of the Dollar is dramatically lower just since the Fiat Games began in 1964
Many people today are paid around minimum wage, or maybe a couple bucks more. Many are entry-level jobs, and some are permanent seasonal, etc. Anyway, let's the average of these workers is $9.00/hour.
When I had my paper route in 1964 at age 12, I delivered 45 papers per day, 7 days a week. I could run the route in about an hour on my bike, except on collection day, when it took 2-3 hours. So, I worked around 9 hours per week at it.
I made around $12/week plus tips, which were usually around $4 or so, as I recall (many tipped zero, of course). So, I made about $16/week, and I never paid much in taxes, maybe a dollar or two, I don't recall.
Anyway, on a per hour basis, I made $16/9=$1.78/hr.
However--I got paid in silver. Assuming that silver's value has not changed much since then, comparatively speaking, that $1.78 would be worth $23.70 per hour! That's at today's price of $19/oz.
Candy bars that cost a nickel then are $1.00 now, and they're smaller. Gas cost $.30/gallon--today, $3.00/gallon.
My point is that the system has been hi-jacked by the bankers; minimum wage today is less than 1/3rd what I made as a lowly paperboy in 1964!
Is it any wonder so many people cannot make it, even with both spouses working? The politicians and bankers stole the futures of millions and millions of people, and they never had a clue how it was done to them.
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Valued Member
United States
410 Posts |
stewart: Inflation has been much less volatile since we moved off the gold standard.  Your paperboy story is interesting but comparing silver prices to minimum wage is meaningless. It all depends on the date you use. You story falls flat for the 20 years from the mid 1980's to mid 2000's when silver stayed at a steady $4 / ounce. Silver prices have not remained steady since 1965, they have had huge swings up and down. We happen to be on the tail end up the last bubble. (BTW, my first job was also delivering papers. I delivered from 1990 to 1998 starting with 50 papers and peaking at 350. My parents kept the routes until 2009 when the paper went to 3 days of home delivery.)  Edited by JSH
12/19/2013 10:28 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Quote:
The has never in the History Of Mankind been a Purely Fiat Currency that has survived.....EVER Except for the fact that there has NEVER been a currency to survive the test of time period. It has nothing to do with precious metal or fiat, and everything to do with the simple fact of rising and falling empire and countries change. "Bill" money of non pm bank notes originated in BC times with the Chinese using leather banknotes. The idea of money not having a PM in it didnt start in the 70s, its been around for thousands of years as well. Quote:
However--I got paid in silver. Assuming that silver's value has not changed much since then, comparatively speaking, that $1.78 would be worth $23.70 per hour! That's at today's price of $19/oz. Except silver value has significantly changed since then and only for the short term. In 1964 it was under 5 dollars an ounce, had you run that same math in 2003 it would have been about double what it was in 1964, thats not keeping up with anything. A second spike in a 50 year history doesn't mean it kept up with anything long term. Aside from those couple years now and in the 1980s it basically sat flat. Quote:
My point is that the system has been hi-jacked by the bankers; minimum wage today is less than 1/3rd what I made as a lowly paperboy in 1964! Honestly not really. You made a 1.78 an hour by your own math, thats a fraction of what minimum wage is now. Youd never be allowed to work 21 hours a week for 12 bucks base pay today. Granted that did go farther back then, but that has nothing to do with not having gold and silver money and everything to do with long term inflation. The longer people work the more they expect to get paid from raises even if theyre in the same job. We have an elderly population right now from the baby boomers after WW2. Inflation was coming either way as cost of labor increased during their work careers. The honest truth is gold and silver in money create a lot more problems then they solve. The US for example had to be bailed out a few times from default by private money in its early years. If thats all you have as money you have no wiggle room when times get tough. If the same reason anytime any country in history has hit a rough patch they debased their currency from PMs and switched to other metals so they can make the money necessary to keep going instead of just packing it in and saying we had a good run. Again that idea is thousands of years old and has been going on since at least the Romans. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3789 Posts |
Inflation has been a major talking point and you might even say misinformation used by gold and silver bugs to push as a major reason to own silver and gold.
Yet, I ask you, despite all the QE by central banks,,, where is the inflation at? Looks like the bugs lost that talking point big time.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2734 Posts |
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...despite all the QE by central banks, where is the inflation at? There has to be REAL economic recovery to drive inflation (in other words, real unemployment rates returning to pre-2009 norms or better). Many sellers still can't raise prices when the economy is in a holding pattern, and many of those displaced in 2008-09 are now long-term unemployed and not counted in the 'official' figures. The world's economy has not truly recovered, it is simply stuck at this lower level. |
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Valued Member
Canada
470 Posts |
Quote:
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...despite all the QE by central banks, where is the inflation at? - the fed is purchasing inflation; 85 billion per month ..... lol where's the inflation - |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3789 Posts |
It is amazing how many people have no idea what the purpose of QE was, and the amount of negative debbie downers.
First of all, the economy has greatly improved and continues to get better. The expansion is real and more people are getting to work, more products are being made, are being shipped by rail and truck or by marine/ocean traffic. It is interesting how those who have commented here have omitted these facts. You cannot deny this real recovery when you have the truckers have a great year and future looking forward. Not to mention the strength of railroads. ...
Second of all, the purpose of QE was to inflate. Guess what... QE was just right, it did not cause runaway inflation.
I hate to say this, but to me the gold and silver bugs sound like they are negative individuals who on PURPOSE want to see things crash so that they can feel good about having gold and silver go higher.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
561 Posts |
Now you are getting into my area of expertise yup7676. Why is it that you believe the transportation sector is booming?
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
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You cannot deny this real recovery Actually yes you can, its stabilized nothing more. Unemployements down because people stopped getting counted, job growth is pathetic and thats cooking the numbers for the most favorite they can get away with that always get adjusted months later. Wall streets doing great thats about it. Everything else just stabilized, which is an improvement but far from a real recovery, more like just going where the current is taking you. That said PMs arent an answer and wouldnt solve anyones economic issues. |
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Valued Member
United States
410 Posts |
There is a big difference between economic recovery and unemployment. It is very possible to see the economy recover and still have a lot of people without jobs. Many of the jobs lost in the recession are not going to come back. Businesses found ways to function without those people and they aren't going to rehire them just to be nice. I've seen this with my own company. More business, more money, but fewer workers due to increased automation. We are hiring engineers and technicians not factory workers.
The USA middle class and working poor are getting squeezed. They have not seen the recovery that the upper class and business have seen. This is simply a fact of life and a continuation of a long term trend. Labor has been getting a smaller piece of the pie for a long time. Workers wages have not kept up with inflation since the 70's. So it is easy for these workers to feel like the economy has recovered if their life hasn't improved or they haven't found an equivalent job to the one they lost in the recession. That doesn't mean that they economy hasn't recovered. It is also important to remember that the recovery hasn't been uniform across all countries, states, and industries.
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
1723 Posts |
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I hate to say this, but to me the gold and silver bugs sound like they are negative individuals who on PURPOSE want to see things crash so that they can feel good about having gold and silver go higher. Be careful when making accusations about someone intentions. This can easily be taken as a personal attack.  Me being a silver bug still DOES NOT mean I WISH for ANYTHING bad upon anyone! It has everything to do with trying to be better prepared for the future IF anything happened. History is a constant repeat so its safe to say that things will go sour again and gold and silver will rise again. Agreed that silver may not be as good to hold as gold but I there are many reasons to still hold it. Agreed there are other things to invest in. Agreed that it is important buy as low as possible so when the day comes you need to cash in on silver you maximize your investment and regain your purchasing power. You need to be smart about it, watch ask, and learn. That's where a lot of your advice you have put out there YUP is great... understanding where and when and why to be in and to be out. When there is doubt in the system...people still turn to gold and silver. Timeline = who knows, but I firmly believe that it is something that you should own. Not all in , but own Quote:
Inflation has been much less volatile since we moved off the gold standard. It should be more under control.... that was the point of coming off the system, but it is still there and always will be. Edited by samsnate
12/20/2013 2:01 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1723 Posts |
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The only problem with your statement is that silver has a very poor long term track record as a stable store of value Agreed... these number don't lie. But there ARE Tops and its at these tops or near where your store of value is regained. That's the point of a long term stacker. Play the game throughout and cash out when you're up. Quote:
Yet, I ask you, despite all the QE by central banks,,, where is the inflation at? There is always inflation. Always has and always will be. Regardless if you recognize it or not. When and where we see it is also a guessing game. Quote:
Second of all, the purpose of QE was to inflate. Guess what... QE was just right, it did not cause runaway inflation. Agreed they did it just right. It is doing what it needs to do for the short term but where is the guarantee that all the QE isn't going to bite us in the butt down the road based on the way the current system works? You guaranteeing it? Quote:
First of all, the economy has greatly improved and continues to get better It appears to have recovered greatly because everything isn't still going to S&%T. Like previously stated... it basically sideways with a few sectors that are up. Hey look Christmas is coming and stores are ordering stock to prepare... how do we get the product here? Hey, lets get a truck to bring it... Wow the trucking sector is up! RECOVERY! Next thing we know there are going to be cheers that retail is way up so everything must be just peachy..... Thanks Christmas for skewing those numbers. Not saying the transportation industry isn't slowly climbing, just saying that reports are hints of where we stand and are incomplete and do not take everything into consideration. Quote:
The USA middle class and working poor are getting squeezed. They have not seen the recovery that the upper class and business have seen. This is simply a fact of life and a continuation of a long term trend. Labor has been getting a smaller piece of the pie for a long time.......... It is also important to remember that the recovery hasn't been uniform across all countries, states, and industries.  Edited by samsnate
12/20/2013 1:44 pm
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Replies: 38 / Views: 4,994 |
First Page
Posted 12/19/2013 9:30 pm
