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Artificial Toning

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biokemist6's Avatar
United States
12437 Posts
 Posted 01/16/2008  12:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
There are too many gray areas.


Not really, intent has alot to do with it but the way in which AT is performed is crucial. The way a coin is stored can lead to many different results. I would consider every one of your examples to be NT, whether you intended to tone or not. If it can be done naturally, I would not consider it AT. Many old timers stored their coins in wood boxes, kraft envelopes, or even Wayte Raymond albums. The albums in particular are notorious for their toning ability but the key is that the coins were placed in an album and time/chemistry took care of the rest with no outside "assistance".

However, if you start applying chemicals or high heat(baking/frying/flaming), that does not happen naturally. The examples I gave- baking in a potato and frying in oil- have to be done intentionally. If you make a sulfur and vaseline paste to smear on cleaned copper, that is doctoring. If the coins are receiving "assistance" then the process cannot be natural.

Disclaimer: The writings espoused here are soley my opinion and are meaningless in the grand scheme of things. It is only how I feel personally about AT vs. NT and is not meant to be taken as a set-in-stone guideline. Some may feel differently but I try to see the situation from all sides and tend to defer to NT if it can occur naturally.
Valued Member
IHPO8S's Avatar
United States
374 Posts
 Posted 01/16/2008  1:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add IHPO8S to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Metalman sent you a email, still having problems trying to up the pic.
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CPChicago's Avatar
United States
185 Posts
 Posted 01/16/2008  2:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CPChicago to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I found a great looking 1976 nickel this past week while roll hunting, but it was clearly artificially toned. It is very easy to see on the reverse a three pointed pattern that seems to be soot from there the flame it it (stove or lighter, possibly). Still, the colors are the best I've seen so I kept it with other odds and ends.
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Cannonman17's Avatar
United States
33 Posts
 Posted 01/16/2008  8:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cannonman17 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Fascinating topic, I would love to see more pics from peoples AT experiments-
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karrlot's Avatar
United States
535 Posts
 Posted 01/16/2008  10:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add karrlot to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I saw a picture once of a silver coin that had toned because it was laying in a bank bag. You could actually see the cross pattern of the fabric on the coin. It was neat.
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Amazon99's Avatar
United States
2443 Posts
 Posted 01/17/2008  12:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Amazon99 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Had this sitting in the cotton cloth bag that it came with for about ten years. Was completely white when I bought it.
Artificial-Toning
Artificial-Toning

This would be natural toning. Now, I putted it back in the bag, hoping to tone some more. Is that AT since my intention is for it to tone some more? No because I'm not messing with "nature" in a sense.
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IHPO8S's Avatar
United States
374 Posts
 Posted 01/20/2008  5:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add IHPO8S to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here are 2 same date supposedly end of roll toned morgans. I boght these when ebay first started from a antique dealer. In person one looks better than the other I think they had a torch put to them. Any opinons?


Artificial-Toning



Artificial-Toning
Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts
 Posted 01/20/2008  8:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I really don't think the average person could ever tell the difference in AT and NT. In fact I doubt the average dealer could either. The problem is exactly what is AT and NT? If you purposely put a coin in a Sulfur rich invironment and left it there for years, is it AT of NT? Some would say since you did it intentionally it is AT. However, if they didn't know you did, that now makes it NT? This is all sort of like the old question about if a tree falls in a forest and there is nothing to hear the noise, was there a noise? There too by diffinition sound requires a create item, carrier and recorder. So was a sound made?
If I AT'd a coin myself it is AT but if I don't tell anyone I did it, does that make it NT?
I've asked many dealers at coin shows and most admit they would be only guessing if AT or NT.
There is actually a toned coin web site where so much of this is debated all the time.
Me? I'd just wipe off all that toning stuff.
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hadleydog's Avatar
Canada
1267 Posts
 Posted 01/21/2008  7:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hadleydog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
IHP08S, those appear to be authentic endrollers. The colors are right, and so is the geometric design. The reverses should be for the most part untoned (perhaps a little around the rim).
Learning the nuances of toning takes time, knowledge, and the willingness to look at lots of known AT and NT coins. The differences become fairly obvious in time.
Learning the differences between AT and NT is really no different than learning what a cleaned coin looks like, or a thumbed or whizzed or counterfeit date or mintmark coin. Heck, it's a lot easier to determine AT vs NT than to find evidence of laser usage and adding 'cameos'.
Like any niche of collecting you wish to pursue, it keeps coming back to knowledge as the key to being successful.
Here's a totally original toner from the Battle Creek Collection, my current avatar.
Artificial-Toning

Image: Artificial-Toning 1886BCObvstarcu13.jpg
51.62 KB
Edited by hadleydog
01/21/2008 7:14 pm
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IHPO8S's Avatar
United States
374 Posts
 Posted 01/22/2008  3:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add IHPO8S to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Hadleydog, yes the reverses are completely white. Also love the pic of the morgan you posted.
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