Return Policy Discussion

Myself, I have 4 ebay accounts. Main selling, main buying, 2 experimental.

I talk 50% of my buyers into sending ck or MO.....because PP sucks as described above.
They claim other forms are unsafe but PP tried to beat me for over $2k on a bullion deal from china. As I never did trust PP, I drained mu PP account and paid thru PP with Amex. After 2 months of PP trying to beat me, Amex gave back every cent. The Amex rep told me that they have less than favourable opinion of PAYPAL.
I have a system where my bank clears all checks within 3 days and I see it online. So far, not 1 bad check but if I do get one, the bank will monitor their account until funds are there and then resubmit...or hound them until they die

You're welcome to continue your discussion on ebay and pay pal return policy here ,, it was off topic in the original thread .

Metalman

Sorry all to double post, but in looking around ebay tonight, I did see a 'carrconnection' in Tampa, FL, but that can't be anyone's selling name who is a member of this site. I'm sure it can't.

I know those can't be yours, Gene, because there's simply no way that someone with listings like that would join a forum full of caring people who were interested in and loved coins and wanted to become more numismatically competent and aware together.

For example that seller (carrconnection) has a listing for 12 PRO GRADED COINS INCLUDING 2 PCGS OR NGC MS MORGANS. The lot costs $267.40 as a Buy It Now. The listing is in basic violation of ebay policy as coins not graded by the eBay-approved grading companies are considered raw, not 'pro graded'. If a buyer purchased that lot he could end up with two common date PCGS/NGC MS-Morgans and coins in plastic that might or might not be worth more than face value. I know you wouldn't sell a lot that's worth maybe about eighty bucks for almost $300 when you add in the ridiculously high shipping.

That particular seller (carrconnection) has so many listings going that should raise a red flag for any numismatically-inclined person, that I am certain it can't possibly be you. I actually seem to remember that seller starting to list a whole boatload of counterfeit Chinese coins with laughably high Buy It Nows before Christmas without even correctly identifying the Krause numbers of the coins they were supposed to be copies of. I don't know whether he pulled the listings himself or if ebay got on his case about it, but they were such a joke, you know what I mean?

I also know it can't be you based on how rude that seller is to people who dare to complain about his crappy listings and leave a neutral or a negative. I don't know exactly what that particular seller expects. When you offer a grab bag of numismatic garbage in a shiny wrapper, you're going to get some disappointed people.

But since you're both apparently from Tampa, FL (he might just say he's in FL. in order to hide his real location, so seeing him might not be possible for you) if you do somehow run into that person, please do your best to let him know that his kind of numismatic bum listings are the kind that I think a majority of CCF members try to avoid themselves and also try hard to steer others away from.

I know that carrconnection can't be you since that person seems to think that everyone in the world except for him is an idiot, and you don't seem like that kind of person.

So if you do have any listings running you'd like us to take a look at, feel free to post them in the appropriate section, because I'm sure they'll be better than that guy's listings. Thanks.

Just my .02--I would never buy coins without some form of return policy. Even a good photo on ebay won't convey the details you'll notice in 1 minute under a loupe (such as cleaning damage), and by that time it's too late to change your mind. A return policy says you stand behind your coins and fosters trust and return customers. Consumer electronics are a whole different business.

And regarding "scammers" on ebay, I suppose sellers have to look out for untrustworthy coin buyers. However, after viewing perhaps thousands of ebay auctions, I would honestly say that about half the coin auctions are some form of scam. There's a high percentage of overgraded, fake slabs, subtly/unsubtly cleaned, or other undisclosed problems sold as a "great coin" etc. Some eBayers just consider this the way of business, but they're actually cheating the buyer. Enough of my rant...guess I'm through with ebay

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From my experience doing retail, phone sales, and online sales I know there are bad buyers out there. You have people who will buy something on impulse and then return it for no other reason then they changed their mind. You have people that will say they never received an item, when in fact they did. You have people that will claim an item is not as listed but it really is. The point is there are bad buyers just like bad sellers, and if I can keep them away by making it clear that all sales are final then I am happy. Yeah I know I will scare off some other potential buyers, but honestly I do not need any more headaches and dealing with idiots. I get more than my share at work. :)

As an ebay seller you have the right to do anything you want regarding return policy. But logically I don't understand how it could be that by calling all sales final that you are weeding out more bad buyers than otherwise.

It stands to reason that even if we used your definition of what makes a 'good buyer' a good buyer and a 'bad buyer' a bad buyer you'd find a lower percentage of 'bad buyers' in the group that won't buy from you because you lack a return policy. A bad buyer is a bad buyer and really won't care about your return policy, if they bother to read your listing at all. Also, there is absolutely nothing to stop a bad buyer from initiating a complaint against you regardless of your 'policy,' and in such cases the lack of a return policy could hurt you if the buyer asserts that your 'all sales final' policy was an attempt to evade responsibility for a lack of quality or an alleged misrepresentation.
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I see where you're coming from. I work my tail off both at work and doing the online sales. My first negative (out of two total) was from a buyer who bought a football helmet from me on ebay. He claimed it was mislisted as far as the size goes, but when I pushed back and proved that it was listed correctly he still slammed me with a negative. I offered to pay for 3rd party arbitration with the understanding that if I was right, he would keep the item and remove the negative against me. If he was right, I would pay for the return shipping and refund his total invoice, and leave the negative strike against me. He refused to do it because at that point he knew I was right. I dont need to deal with people like this. I have dealt with ebay buyers who havent read the descriptions fully and then want to return something when it's their mistake. Like others mentioned, people return the wrong item, used items, empty boxes and such. So why put myself at risk by allowing returns? By being clear up front, I havent had to deal with returns. In fact, the only dispute I have had in the past 5 years is for a Trade dollar someone bought where the rim had some damage that was not noted by me (my fault so we agreed upon a new lower price and I refunded the difference). My sales on ebay are solid, my margins are excellent, so if there is an impact by having a strict return policy I havent really noticed it.

At work, I deal with business to business phone sales and there are alot of morons out there that are buyers as a living. You would be surprised at how many customers in the business world (so called professionals) can't order things correctly and return them because of their ignorance. Returns cost our company a ton of money to process and yet people have a hard time understanding why there is a restock fee. Again, buyer ignorance is the cause of probably 90-95% of the returns I deal with at work.

Between my experiences in retail, phone sales, and online sales, I have come to the conclusion that returns are more often than not a result of buyer negligence and stupidity. Sorry if this seems harsh, but that's the reality I have dealt with for the past 10 years working in those areas. Maybe I have just grown tired of dealing with returns but when you have dealt with some pretty stupid people in the past like I have, you may understand my point of view better.

We'll have to agree to disagree. Trust me, I've dealt with enough morons in my years as Traffic Manager and in the catalog business. Numismatically speaking, I have to defer to my long experience as a buyer and seller. December 15, 2008 will mark my 10th year as an ebay member and I have never had a single problem with a buyer. My attitude is that it's my place in life to get the coins--of which I am caretaker--as close to where they are supposed to be as I can. If somebody decides they don't want a coin or coins, then I'm just as happy to keep them in my care until they get where they're destined to be. I know it sounds like the My-Name-Is-Earl philosophy of coin sales, but to each his/her own.

But I continue to feel that there are at least 10 shady sellers (like the one I mentioned in my post above, carrconnection) to every shady buyer.

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Fair enough. I did have a question for you though. When you accept returns, what are your thoughts on these topics:

1) How long do they have to return the coin or ask for an RMA upon receiving it?
2) Do you charge a restock fee?
3) Do you recover your final value fees from ebay?
4) How do you know with 100% certainty that you are getting back the same exact coin that you sent?

I am reconsidering the return policy but would like to get some input on what your experiences are for the above questions. I wouldnt bring up these issues if they werent things that I have dealt with and still deal with in retail, ecommerce, and phone sales today. Thanks for your help.

quote:

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Fair enough. I did have a question for you though. When you accept returns, what are your thoughts on these topics:

1) How long do they have to return the coin or ask for an RMA upon receiving it?
2) Do you charge a restock fee?
3) Do you recover your final value fees from ebay?
4) How do you know with 100% certainty that you are getting back the same exact coin that you sent?

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Not to stick my nose in, but I'll stick my nose in.

My experience buying/selling on ebay is rather limited, having purchased maybe 150 coins and sold 100 or so. I share HABIB's return policy, although, like him, I've never had a return. Here's my answers to your questions:

1) If I don't hear from a buyer within 7 days of delivery (I have delivery confirmation on ALL sales, paid out of my own pocket if necessary), I will not accept a return. That's final, and ebay will back me up since it's both reasonable and clearly defined in my auctions.

2) Restock fees are unacceptable.

3) Final Value Fees are recoverable in the instance of a return/refund, if I'm to believe ebay's Help section.

4) I know with certainty because I have images of all my coins like this one (dialup users beware):

http://www.compucoin.com/gallery/ma...rialNumber=2