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Which Should I Get? Princess Or King?

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Rest in Peace
johnny54321's Avatar
United States
4849 Posts
 Posted 06/17/2008  5:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add johnny54321 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yeah. Sorry about my previous outburst. I thought I had most of my knowlege base covered with authentication(coin and slab), cleaning, dipping, etc. I didn't research corrosion intensively before purchasing as much as I should have. I do feel that overall I know what the coin "should" look like, though I need to brush up on the distinguishing characteristics of PVC/corrosion vs. crust. I see what you are saying bio about crust being on the coin, but isn't PVC on the coin too instead of "in" the coin? I'm eternally thankful to have all of you for input. :-)

Bottom line though, I'm in good shape. I'll take it to a trusted dealer and get his opinion. If it is corrosion/pvc, then I will simply return it. I emailed the seller stating the possibility of a return, and he was extremely cool about it, saying that I could have more than a week if needed.

If its not corrosion, I will most certainly keep the coin, as the overall eye appeal is way above average imo. The coin is no dog. I would like additional opinions on the coins in the links. And I like your idea lanispet.

thanks,
John
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biokemist6's Avatar
United States
12437 Posts
 Posted 06/17/2008  5:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I see what you are saying bio about crust being on the coin, but isn't PVC on the coin too instead of "in" the coin? I'm eternally thankful to have all of you for input. :-)


PVC residue starts out on the surface but slowly moves into the coin. It will initially manifest itself as a green slime but get darker and crustier over time. PVC is polyvinyl chloride and will break down into many chlorinated constituents. Chlorine, by its very nature, is corrosive and nasty. That green slime in the presence of moisture will eventually corrode the coin through acidic action. A dealer from my area has a great writeup on PVC on his website complete with before/after photos http://www.earlyus.com/art005-pvc.pdf
Rest in Peace
johnny54321's Avatar
United States
4849 Posts
 Posted 06/18/2008  12:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add johnny54321 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks bio. Great Info!

Ok, here is one more site.
http://coins.ha.com/common/view_ima...nly.php?img=http://images.ha.com/lf%3Fsource=url%5Bfile:images/InetPub/NewNames/300/3/9/0/5/3905326.jpg%5D%2Ccontinueonerror%5Btrue%5D&sink
Look at the closeups of the reverse! Is that not corrosion or pvc? It looks green to me, but maybe I need to get my eyes checked.
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biokemist6's Avatar
United States
12437 Posts
 Posted 06/18/2008  09:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hmmm, you may need your monitor color adjusted if you are seeing strong green because I am still seeing more greyish-brown than green but there is a hint of olive colors. I have looked at them on two different monitors now and I hope someone else chimes in on the color. A bit of green tint in the form of olive colors is not always a bad thing on copper and bronze. Many copper salts are various shades of green so that is a natural color to be associated with that metal and it is part of the aging process to have shades of brown and olive. Take note that green is not the same as olive- bright green, bluish green, or other obvious green colors without any hints of brown are not good colors to have on copper and are a sign of corrosion. Look at the large cent auctions on Heritage and see how many use the term "olive" to describe the patina. May I make a suggestion that you look at as many slabs as possible with corrosion(ANACS and NCS) so you get a really good idea of exactly what to look for. Then you will have a better idea of what corrosion will not look like.
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johnny54321's Avatar
United States
4849 Posts
 Posted 06/18/2008  12:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add johnny54321 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
thanks bio, I posted this in cointalk as well, and it seems there was a split. Some saw green, and others describe it as you have.I've looked at both my at home, and work monitor, and both look green. I think its one of those cases that we may have to see the coins in hand. I'm hoping you are right in these cases, as I'd hate to see corrosion in problem free slabbed coins. I have looked at many "corroded" slabbed ANACS and NCS coins. The color looks similar to me, though the problem slabbed coins also mostly show obvious signs of pitting. In the coins I've listed, I see no signs of pitting or rough surfaces.
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johnny54321's Avatar
United States
4849 Posts
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
189502 Posts
 Posted 06/18/2008  2:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I have looked at them on two different monitors now and I hope someone else chimes in on the color
Looks mostly gray-brown to me. Any green I see is more olive (good) than bright teal or cyan (bad).
Rest in Peace
johnny54321's Avatar
United States
4849 Posts
 Posted 06/18/2008  8:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add johnny54321 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks guys...sigh. Well, I showed the coin to my trusted dealer today. He looked at it initially and pointed out my area of concern and determined it was just "crust" that was on my coin....so I shopped around a bit and chatted with him. Right before I left, he took another look at it in some slightly different lighting. At that point, he said that it really looked like PVC. So, I guess the best thing to do is return the coin, heartbreaking as it is. It is kind of an "olive" green color though, honestly quite similar to the pictures that I posted, though that color covers a much smaller area on my coin. So I don't know. It looks like this in color.
http://www.adamsss.com/resources/_w...ePiece04.jpg
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biokemist6's Avatar
United States
12437 Posts
 Posted 06/18/2008  10:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You did good by having someone examine it in hand. Judging a coin by photos, no matter how perfect the photos, is not an absolute substitute for looking at it in hand.
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mfry's Avatar
United States
157 Posts
 Posted 06/18/2008  11:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mfry to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry about the loss of Senior Senor Abe. Too bad he had to go. We hardly knew him! But like biokemist6 said, you did good by examining it closely and letting an expert look at it. I probably would have kept it anyway, and been sorry some day. So, now what are you gonna do, look for another Senior Abe, or go back to the Princess you originally spurned, and beg for her forgiveness?
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johnny54321's Avatar
United States
4849 Posts
 Posted 06/18/2008  11:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add johnny54321 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks. Here are photos of my coin that were on the site.


The coin is MUCH more beautiful in person, and has very uniform and clean surfaces. More than almost any of my other Lincoln cents. The area of concern is the place that is hidden within the shadow on the obverse at 6oclock, between the bust and the edge of the slab.


Image: Which-Should-I-Get??-Princess-Or-King? my_svdb_.jpg
77.9 KB
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mfry's Avatar
United States
157 Posts
 Posted 06/18/2008  11:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mfry to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You still want him, no? Then go to him! Go to him! Do not let him stand idly about wondering, will he take me? will he take me? I see very little concern with this coin. It's a minor imperfection, like a pimple on a beautiful baby. Perhaps thee is something you can give the coin to stop the spread of this (whatever it is) dead in its tracks, and just let it live out its life with you in perfect peace and harmony.
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johnny54321's Avatar
United States
4849 Posts
 Posted 06/19/2008  12:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add johnny54321 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You crack me up mfry. Yes I still want him. I'm very torn right now.....but I'm trying to think logically about pros and cons here.
Cons for returning it: There's always a chance the seller somehow won't refund my money, and the shipping/insurance costs I will lose by sending it back.
The pros, of course, is that I will most likely get a full refund.

The cons of keeping it is the potential loss in value if this issue is corrosive and eats my coin over time. The coin has absolutely no obvious pitting under close magnification, but I suppose that could change over time even in a sonic sealed container?

Then there is always the option to remove the coin and follow CLOSE RIGIDITY with an acetone bath(after I've perfected the technique on other Lincolns). I could always pull some non valuable copper out to experiment with acetone. This, of course, is risky on such a valuable coin, so it has it's own associated cons.

I could also send the coin to NCS and see what they have to say?

I still will most likely send it back, but its going to be darn tough to do....like giving your child up for adoption! (ok, maybe not that tough). As you can see, an emotional attachment has already been formed. I truly am a collector more than an investor.....sigh.

Valued Member
mfry's Avatar
United States
157 Posts
 Posted 06/19/2008  01:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mfry to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
ayyyyy, Johnny, Johnny. I don't think you should abandon him so easily. Wait. Wait and see what an expert says on the subject, like a trusted coin collector. Don't wait too long to decide, though. Take Abe to see the coin doctor and let him examine him. Really, the love of the coin is the thing. Aren't those slabs air-resistant? Then probably the infection won't spread and the coin will be OK. Won't it, somebody in control here? This is a really rare coin you have. I know this is a tough decision. Somewhere in the bible it says "From a counsel with kings comes wisdom". Or something like that - don't quote me on it though. But get many good opinions. I believe you have gotten several here, and more shall come. And I'm a newbie and no expert by any stretch of the hatband. But believe me, if you thought that was the last 1909 S VDB you would see in that condition, for that price, then I'd swoop it off its e plurbus unum. But there will be others, Johnny - lots of others. "A doubt in time, saves 9 or even more dollars." But I feel your angst. You're torn like a young man going away to college - excited to go, but reluctant to leave your good friends and comfortable surroundings.
Rest in Peace
johnny54321's Avatar
United States
4849 Posts
 Posted 06/19/2008  02:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add johnny54321 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
lol....I've had several dramas in my stead with coins. Did you know that I already had a previous encounter with the princess? Yes indeed I did, and it was much more brutal than this one. I paid decent money for her, and she turned out to be a poser. Not an ounce of truth in anything she told me. Here's a link to the story.
https://goccf.com/t/27428&SearchTerms=$3,gold
Anyways, my learning experience with her is the reason that I am MUCH more wary about my purchases. Things like certification and return policies are mandatory with any big purchases....but they obviously still aren't fool proof. Biokemist had it right when he said, "Judging a coin by photos, no matter how perfect the photos, is not an absolute substitute for looking at it in hand." Unfortunately this is hard for me, as I live out in the middle of nowhere. I had to drive an hour away just to have my dealer look at it. It really comes down to knowlege, and knowing what to look out for....and I'm trying to absorb as much knowlege now so that I can make better choices in the future.
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