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Pillar of the Community
5464 Posts |
Hmmmm... Quote:
Gun Metal Blue Now there's a thought. I may have to experiment with my gun blueing on some old worthless coins. Thanks oih82w8! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7840 Posts |
USSID18, Be sure to take some "before" and "after" images!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3327 Posts |
So in 100 years, do you think Morgan collectors will be looking for black toning like the seated collectors prize? I ask this as someone who isn't a dollar connoisseur, and who isn't a fan of toned silver (not judging, just personal preference.)
(Edited to add a word left out)
"Nummi rari mira sunt, si sumptus ferre potes." - Christophorus filius Scotiae
Edited by Bump111
07/19/2018 2:41 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
3479 Posts |
Seated dollars and Morgans traveled very different paths. Morgans were hoarded and stored in vaults. Seated dollars were rare from the start due to extremely low mintages, melting and shipping overseas. Only two dates were found in the GSA hoard(a few others were but in tiny quantities). Unfortunately, in the 60's and 70's many dealers cleaned most of the Seated dollars remaining to make them more competitive with shiny Morgans. That's why Seated dollars with original surfaces are so highly prized by advanced collectors. Quote:
So in 100 years, do you think Morgan collectors be looking for black toning like the seated collectors prize?
No, they are stored well in airtight TPG holders so the likelihood of a ms morgan toning darker is slim.
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Quote:
. So in 100 years, do you think Morgan collectors will be looking for black toning like the seated collectors prize? I wouldn't say seated collectors prize black toning. It all depends on the coin. Some can look good with it but it's not a plus automatically and is actually a negative on some. Most Morgan's are uncirculated so for them dark toning is almost always a negative in the eyes of their collectors. 100 years from now maybe tastes will have changed but rainbow tones and blast white have been the looks Morgan collectors want for a long time |
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Pillar of the Community
5464 Posts |
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USSID18, Be sure to take some "before" and "after" images! Will do.  |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1267 Posts |
Black Morgan dollars are highly prized amongst toner folk, so long as the black is not terminal. Had one many years ago, and close inspection showed a beautiful emerald green all through the toning. Again, if there is luster present, it is not terminal. |
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Pillar of the Community
5464 Posts |
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Quote:
Had one many years ago, and close inspection showed a beautiful emerald green all through the toning.
Wouldn't you consider that more of a green one than a black one? Edited by basebal21
07/19/2018 10:23 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1267 Posts |
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I don't know. I'm from New York. Anything with the word toning in it, I'm skeptical. It just seems to me these things can easily be mass produced.
Being skeptical is not a bad thing. However, the coin doctor's can't produce anything close to the coin you posted (my avatar). Correct color progression, elevation chromatics, textile and the pull-away effect are beyond their capabilities. To someone who has been collecting these for over 20 years, the coin doctor's work is almost cartoonish. That particular piece (my avatar) was in the Flanagan collection for almost 20 years, and now squirreled away in mine. It remains completely unchanged. |
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Pillar of the Community
5464 Posts |
Quote:
Being skeptical is not a bad thing. However, the coin doctor's can't produce anything close to the coin you posted (my avatar). Correct color progression, elevation chromatics, textile and the pull-away effect are beyond their capabilities. To someone who has been collecting these for over 20 years, the coin doctor's work is almost cartoonish. That particular piece (my avatar) was in the Flanagan collection for almost 20 years, and now squirreled away in mine. It remains completely unchanged. You obviously know what you're talking about. I couldn't begin to challenge you on it. I'm just a novice. It's not you. It's just the whole toning subject in general I have problems with. If you ask ten different people (coin collectors) the same toning question you get ten different explanation, that's where it turns me off. Seems like there is little general consensus on the subject. Edited by USSID18
07/19/2018 11:13 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1267 Posts |
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It's just the whole toning subject in general I have problems with. If you ask ten different people (coin collectors) the same toning question you get ten different explanation, that's where it turns me off. Seems like there is little general consensus on the subject. I certainly appreciate your point of view. If you were to ask me those same 10 toning questions, you would most likely get the exact same answers as from an Andrew Kimmel or Dale Larson.....toned coin collectors far longer than I. Same with Brandon Kelly (the wonderfully informative Jhonecash site), or the late Mike DeFalco. Talk to the right people in that particular niche, and you will hear a common consensus. Take another look at my avatar. The elevation chromatics (ie different colors in the recesses and the devices) through the hair, ear, the eye.....they follow the correct progression, and are impossible to replicate. Artificially toned coins tend to have the color creep up and over the devices with no change, a dead giveaway.  Thankfully, we all have different tastes. Some prefer blast white, some toned, some both. Collect what appeals to you. Edited by hadleydog
07/20/2018 12:24 am
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1267 Posts |
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Wouldn't you consider that more of a green one than a black one? No. I could have shown that particular Morgan to 10 different people, and the first response from all would have been black. Pull out a loupe and voila! Multicolored, with a ton of underlying emerald. Almost proof-like too. Purchased it from Andrew Kimmel. Sadly, I have no images of it, nor did I listen to Andy as to just how rare it was.  Edited by hadleydog
07/20/2018 12:22 am
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Pillar of the Community
5464 Posts |
I hear what you're saying hadleydog. I am impressed. It's obviously a science at this point and you have a passion for it. I couldn't figure it out with a Scanning Electron Microscope, a Radiocarbon Dating Machine or one of these....  |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1267 Posts |
Back to the original topic. Just because a coin appears to have black toning does not necessarily equate to terminal or end toning. IF THERE IS LUSTER PRESENT, it has not reached that stage.
It makes sense, if you think about it. Terminal toning is when the toning has ceased to provide a protective layer on the coins original surfaces, and starts to actually eat into those surfaces....thus impeding the luster.
Flat black? Flat brown? Terminal.
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Posted 07/19/2018 10:31 am
