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How Long Until People Don't Use Coins Anymore?

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jbuck's Avatar
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 Posted 02/15/2019  11:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
An economic downturn would help get those coins back to the banks. The Great Coin Jar Dump of 2008 is why 2009 had relatively low mintages.
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PacoMartin's Avatar
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 Posted 02/16/2019  5:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PacoMartin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Production beginning of 1999 through end of 2018 in billions of coins.
$0.01 153.4
$0.05 25.3
$0.10 45.7
$0.25 49.2
$0.50 0.2
$1.00 4.4
USD 278.2


My plan would be to collect pennies at commercial banks at 20 per dollars for a month After that declare that pennies are now worth 5 cents apiece. That will make people empty their cans and drawer. After that you only mint new dimes and quarters. The nickels will vanish into collections and the half dollars and dollars are relatively inconsequential anyway.

Of course you would close the Philadelphia mint since Denver could easily make all the dimes and quarters we would ever need. In ten years declare that no more dimes and quarters will be minted and you will have to use cards or phone apps. Five years after that we stop printing the $1 and $2 banknote.

After that we print a new $20 banknote with a really ugly person on it, so people finally switch to the $50 banknote in the ATM (like Europe, Australia, Switzerland and Sweden).
Edited by PacoMartin
02/17/2019 01:13 am
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 Posted 02/16/2019  5:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:

My plan would be to collect pennies at commercial banks at 20 per dollars for a month After that declare that pennies are now worth 5 cents apiece.


That makes no sense. It would be FAR cheaper to just make new ones.


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Of course you would close the Washington DC mint since Denver could easily make all the dimes and quarters we would ever need.


There is no Washington DC mint producing coins.


Quote:
In ten years declare that no more dimes and quarters will be minted and you will have to use cards or phone apps. Five years after that we stop printing the $1 and $2 banknote.

After that we print a new $20 banknote with a really ugly person on it, so people finally switch to the $50 banknote in the ATM (like Europe, Australia, Switzerland and Sweden).


The USA is the worlds super power, not some tiny country. Trying to copy them is a horrible horrible plan

The last thing we should ever be doing is trying to copy the massive inflation of Australia.
Edited by basebal21
02/16/2019 5:42 pm
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 Posted 02/16/2019  9:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rayder to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I concur basebal21
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 Posted 02/16/2019  11:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PacoMartin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It would be expensive for a few months, but the goal would be to get out of the coin producing business slowly by making the existing base of pennies serve as 5¢ pieces.

Everyone assumes the USA can one day stop making pennies. But it actually create a bigger problem because the mint loses more money making the current nickels. Right now the nickel is minted in very low quantities because the penny exists. The demand for 5¢ pieces would grow exponentially if you stop making pennies.

The other alternative is to stop making pennies and nickels cold turkey and tell people to round off to the nearest dime. Sweden has no equivalent to 5¢ pieces, but Norway and Switzerland do have 5¢ equivalents. While suburban America would probably adapt, I think you would end up with more assaults in the ghettos.

So we are stuck with this costly bureaucracy producing ultimately useless objects.

I think the Korean experiment will create a lot of publicity, but it will be difficult to reproduce if you can't demonetize coins.

Sweden is a good candidate to demonetize coins simply because there are relatively few in circulation, but as they just replaced their small value coins with a new series, people might get upset. There are so few cash transactions in Sweden anyway, that there is little to be gained.
How-Long-Until-People-Don't-Use-Coins-Anymore?
Edited by PacoMartin
02/16/2019 11:15 pm
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 Posted 02/17/2019  12:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The other alternative is to stop making pennies and nickels cold turkey and tell people to round off to the nearest dime.
Correct.

However, while there is no way to make the cent affordable (even if the material were free, the entire process still cost more than a cent each), the nickel could survive with a material change.

Still, kill them both and move on.
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 Posted 02/17/2019  09:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

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the nickel could survive with a material change

Voila! The zincerson


Quote:
The USA is the worlds super power, not some tiny country. Trying to copy them is a horrible horrible plan

Let's not confuse the what and the how. We should change because it makes sense. We don't necessarily need to implement the change the way someone else did. Though avoiding reinventing the wheel is usually smart.
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 Posted 02/17/2019  10:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

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Let's not confuse the what and the how. We should change because it makes sense


It doesn't make sense though except hypothetically on paper. Increasing the cost of living to save what is something like .0000000000001 percent of the federal budget from an entity that is profitable anyway makes absolutely no sense.

The larger the lowest denomination of money is the more expensive life gets and the faster prices rise. It doesn't matter cash or credit, if the dime is the lowest denomination prices will increase by a dime or more. That adds up very quickly over the course of a year because something was done that made absolutely 0 difference in the budget.
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 Posted 02/17/2019  12:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sharkman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
. From a perspective standpoint we are debating theory, not materiality.
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 Posted 02/17/2019  12:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

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The larger the lowest denomination of money is the more expensive life gets and the faster prices rise.


If we take the case of Canada and the elimination of the one cent coin, I am not sure I see this.
First, the guidance from Bank of Canada was to round up on CASH transactions ending in 0.03, 0.04, 0.08 0.09, but to round DOWN on transactions ending in 0.01, 0.02, 0.06 and 0.07. Assuming an equal likelihood of all numerical endings, this practice should make things cost neutral to the consumer. Add in that the rounding occurs only on the total bill, not individual items, and this lessens any potential inflationary impact.
Of course, non-cash transactions are completely unaffected.
Finally, there is economic data. Banks stopped distributing the Canada one cent coin 35 days into 2013. Inflation (CPI) did not increase during the balance of 2013.

Would it be different for elimination of both the cent and the nickel? Normal rounding off procedures would mean transactions ending in 1, 2, 3 or 4 would be rounded down, but transactions ending in 5, 6, 7, 8, or 9 would be rounded up. This gives a slight bias (one out of 10) toward the price charged in cash transactions going up. What this would amount to:
- cash transactions of about $1 would increase by an average of $0.01 (1% "inflation")
- cash transactions of about $10 would increase to an average of $10.01 (0.1% "inflation")
- cash transactions of about $100 would increase to an average of $100.01 (0.01%).
So, the only thing that would affect overall inflation by a measurable amount is the small percent of the economy that is in cash transactions of a few dollars.

If I think of my own monthly expenses, I am well below 10% cash. I often use cash for groceries when the amount is under $20, and if I thought that rounding off would affect my cost, I would move those transactions to a debit card, too. I recognize that not all of America behaves like I do, but I am very hard pressed to see a connection between getting rid of pennies, and a measurable increase in the cost of living.
Edited by tdziemia
02/17/2019 1:24 pm
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 Posted 02/17/2019  12:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

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If we take the case of Canada and the elimination of the one cent coin, I am not sure I see this.


Canada is irrelevant. It's the population of essentially NYC with their workforce.

They are not the worlds super power, nor do they drive the global economy. What works for small countries is not necessarily smart for the USA, which is the point most people are missing.

People also don't realize that most other counties on the planet are much much more regulated.


Quote:
Lastly, I'll use this argument: the smallest denomination of money in the United States hasn't changed in over 150 years. But the cost of living certainly has.


And it would just increase more getting rid of the denominations.
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 Posted 02/17/2019  1:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

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Canada is irrelevant

Hardly. It has a diverse economy that is more similar to ours than different. It is large enough to expect a similar outcome if the U.S. followed suit.
(and to be more accurate, Canada's population is over 4 times that of NYC... comparing it to the State of California is better ).


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 Posted 02/17/2019  2:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

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Hardly. It has a diverse economy that is more similar to ours than different.


Their entire economy is essentially Texas, hardly anything to try and emulate or a direct comparison.


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(and to be more accurate, Canada's population is over 4 times that of NYC... comparing it to the State of California is better ).


I said essentially NYC with their workforce which is mid 20 millions compared to a countries population of 30 something million.

There are massive differences in the economies
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 Posted 02/17/2019  2:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sharkman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Canada has one of the seven largest economies in the world and is in the G7. That said, we have distinct economic and political situations from our Northern neighbor. I am not currently aware of monetary denominations being a significant issue in either country, i.e. they both seem to work satisfactorily.
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 Posted 02/17/2019  6:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PacoMartin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A quick comparison with South Korea shows that USA has a lot more coins in circulation than the USA.

Korean small currency in circulation per inhabitant
47 coins worth ~50¢
187 coins worth ~10¢
39 coins worth ~5¢
156 coins worth ~1¢

USA coins produced per inhabitant since 1999 added to pre-existing stock
150 coins worth ~25¢
139 coins worth ~10¢
77 coins worth ~5¢
468 coins worth ~1¢

In any case, the USA must learn how to exist with fewer coins before it talks about eliminating them.
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