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How Far Back Can We Go? Sixth Edition! Ended At 1380 Waiting On 1379

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paralyse's Avatar
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 Posted 12/24/2020  01:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Another Brandenburg 1/12 Thaler, this one from 1683.

The original envelope indicates its owner at that time paid 25 cents for this coin in April 1955. It's a bit more expensive now, but still probably less so than inflation would allow for.

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Sixth-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Sixth-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Sixth-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379
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"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
Edited by paralyse
12/24/2020 01:40 am
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tdziemia's Avatar
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 Posted 12/24/2020  07:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That's pretty neat, @paralyse.

I'll take a break from my Polish szostaks with this 1682 Salzburg 1/2 thaler commemorative (never took my own photo for some reason)
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Spence's Avatar
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34506 Posts
 Posted 12/24/2020  4:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Absolutely stunning 1/2 Thaler @tdz.

Here is a 6 Groschen from Poland dated 1682 AD:

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Sixth-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Sixth-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
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erafjel's Avatar
Sweden
2124 Posts
 Posted 12/24/2020  4:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add erafjel to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Lovely silver, all of you! And yes, that ½ thaler @tdziemia, wow!

Nothing from me until the 1660s ...
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paralyse's Avatar
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12057 Posts
 Posted 12/24/2020  5:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Now that's a very interesting commemorative issue.

The obverse and reverse are a scaled-down rendition of the 5 Ducat Gold issue of Prince-Archbishop Maximilian Gandolf, Reichsgraf von Kuenburg, a common practice for Gedenkmünze (commemorative issues)

On the reverse we see The Most Holy (Sanctissimus or "SS") St. Martin(us), Bishop ("EPiscopus") of Tours, and at his side ("translati") are the martyred Saints Vincenti(us) of Saragossa, Hermes, and the odd couple Chrysanth(us) and Daria.

The aforementioned martyrs all had shrines or tombs at the Catacomb of Priscilla on the Roman route known as the Via Salaria, an important Adriatic trade route for the salt mines.
This ties into Salzburg which was the center of salt production and trade on the River Salzach.

The symbol which looks like a 9 or an apostrophe is the abbreviation for the Latin ending "us."

von Kuenburg is probably best known for the Counter-Reformation incident which would take place two years later in 1684 when he expelled ~650-700 Protestants from the Defereggen Valley, a rather nasty bit of religious intolerance provoked by the alleged Protestant harassment of a seller of Catholic "holy tokens" or devotional medals. Those expelled were forced to leave in the dead of winter. Their possessions were seized and heavily taxed; their minor children were forced to remain behind and convert to Catholicism, and the taxes levied against their parents' holdings were used to pay for the children's "conversion."

Spoiler: it didn't work out so well for Austria. The final mass expulsion in 1731 sent 30,000 or more Protestants away, many to East Prussia, where they were warmly received by Frederick William I.
The influx of immigrants allowed Frederick and later his son to repopulate East Prussia and rebuild the Prussian armies, in addition to providing economic benefits from taxation and tithes. A resurgent Prussia ultimately wrested control of Silesia away from the Habsburg Austrians during the War of the Austrian Succession.
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"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
Edited by paralyse
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tdziemia's Avatar
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 Posted 12/24/2020  9:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@paralyse, great historical notes! There is a thaler with the same design, as well as the ducat you mention.

My understanding of some of the religious symbolism(s):
1. From the obverse inner legend, the coin is meant to celebrate 1100th anniversary of the founding of the archbishopric of Salzburg "VNDECIMO SECVLO ... FVNDATI ARCHIEPTV SAL". Later historians would figure out this was off by about 200 years, but I'm not quibbling since the result was a pretty spectacular coin.
2. The meaning of "TRANSLATI" reverse may be ambiguous, or a double entendre. "Translation" was the official churchy term for the movement of a saints relics from one place to another. The Salzburg cathedral contains the relics of all of the pictured saints (as well as many others ...). Hence, this could also have been an homage to the saints whose relics had been brought ("translated") to the cathedral. The connection you mention to the Via Salaria answers a question I had wondered: why THESE saints?

Edited by tdziemia
12/24/2020 9:53 pm
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jbuck's Avatar
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192314 Posts
 Posted 12/25/2020  12:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I'll take a break from my Polish szostaks with this 1682 Salzburg 1/2 thaler commemorative (never took my own photo for some reason)
A lovely coin!
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Keith67's Avatar
United States
6732 Posts
 Posted 12/25/2020  09:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Keith67 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1681 Bishopric of Salzburg 3 Kreuzer
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Sixth-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379
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paralyse's Avatar
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 Posted 12/25/2020  11:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@tdz I agree with your assessment. The Salzburger Dom does have the relics. And the use of "translati" does have both secular and religious meanings as you noted. I cannot infer intent but the double entendre is definitely interesting.
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pepactonius's Avatar
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 Posted 12/25/2020  11:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pepactonius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1681 -- Royal Mint of Silesia, 3 pfennig:

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Sixth-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379

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Spence's Avatar
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 Posted 12/25/2020  8:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is a 6 Groschen from Poland dated 1681 AD:

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Sixth-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Sixth-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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tdziemia's Avatar
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 Posted 12/25/2020  9:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@keith, Wow! Gorgeous Salzburg coin!

For 1681 I have another Polish szostak, similar to @spence's. Mine is Krakow mint Kop.1955 (@spence's Bydgoszcz mint, Kop.1953):
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Sixth-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Sixth-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379
Edited by tdziemia
12/25/2020 9:48 pm
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pepactonius's Avatar
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 Posted 12/26/2020  12:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pepactonius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1680 -- city of Magdeburg, 1/24 thaler:

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Sixth-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379

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tdziemia's Avatar
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 Posted 12/26/2020  07:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Poland, 1680 szostak:
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Sixth-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379
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Spence's Avatar
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34506 Posts
 Posted 12/26/2020  2:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is a 1/24 Thaler from the German State of Saxony dated 1680 AD:

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Sixth-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Sixth-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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