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Replies: 75 / Views: 9,204 |
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Valued Member
United States
314 Posts |
Here's my 2 cents: As stock market participants got an inkling about how bad Covid might be, they sold a LOT creating the first downdraft. Ironically gold immediately went up in the opposite direction to 1700 spot. I guess this was a knee jerk reaction, flight to safety, fear trade, who knows. But it was exactly the wrong play, at least initially. Rather quickly it began to dawn on nearly EVERYONE, that this was probably the single most deflationary event to ever hit the entire world. People dying by the 100s of thousands maybe even millions (AND in particular older people), demand for anything but food basically grinding to a halt. It didn't take long for traders to figure that out and they sold gold too, all the way down to around 1460 spot. As the stock market continued to tank then came the talk of stimulus, bailouts, cash payments to just about everybody, i.e. the flip side, the biggest inflationary event in world history. Here in the states they are just going to send money to peoples bank accounts. That means the gold trade is on again in a big way. Gold is right back up to spot 1726 today and it sure seems strong. For the meanwhile, it sees endless money printing. As to the high premium for gold coins over spot, apparently this is due to huge demand and all the major coin dealers as well as mints being caught flatfooted. Apparently they just don't keep tons of this stuff just lying around. LCS are all closed so ebay seems like the only place you can buy anything and 1 oz gold coins routinely get $200 over spot premiums.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2852 Posts |
@glenmorenee.... April 13th trading in the $GLD finally breached the last resistance level in the high $159's, confirmed the technical breakout & now appears to be building support at $160. It may take some time of backing/filling & stair stepping up, but (IMO) in the next 6-12 months we see an all time high in the price of Gold/$GLD. I'm guessing minimum of $2,000 per ounce but some analysts are projecting $2,500-$3000 & I wouldn't be surprised to see that come to fruition.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2852 Posts |
And to finish the previous thought.... (based on ones portfolio & individual risk tolerance) having a 5-10% position in physical precious metals or an investment in a market trading vehicle, might be a prudent decision if you listen to people like Dan Niles-AlphaOne Capital and Jeffery Gundlach-Doubleline Capitol. They both make good/logical points for the market retesting or even putting in lower lows than we saw in March. Then, when we finally get through this pandemic, take profits and reinvest in other beaten down sectors. Just my opinionated .02, take it fwiw.
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Valued Member
United States
314 Posts |
I'm no economist, but I think the net effect of Covid will be deflationary. It does not look like the toll in lives will be that extraordinary but countries that shut down will take a long time to get back. People have no work, burned thru their savings, gone further into debt. Cities and states are in far worse shape. No amount of printing will make everything whole again.
Even without Covid, you'd expect that gold would have a tough time breaking thru the last all time high in Aug 2011. There was almost 2 years of gold trading at those high prices. That's a lot of gold and people have waited almost 10 years just to break even. In a vacuum not a big deal but the stock market has doubled over the same period. I think it will take several rallies and failures into the old highs before finally breaking thru for good.
You might argue that gold has hit all time new highs in other currencies like the AUD or CAD but those currencies were very strong vs the USD back then.
(Corrected. AUD and CAD were very strong vs USD back then.)
Edited by glenmorenee 04/29/2020 02:25 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2852 Posts |
The Fed & Q.E. Infinity band-aid policies on a mortal wound is only a temporary fix. We already went off the fiscal cliff some time ago and now this current pandemic environment only exacerbates the issue.... unfortunately, the hole keeps getting deeper. The real question, when is it finally going to be realized? That's my base-case thesis for having a small % exposure to precious metals physical a/or investment vehicle. I truly believe at some point in the not so distant future, we'll see a real divergence between the $GLD & DJIA/SPY/QQQ, but to reiterate, its all my opinion.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1913 Posts |
Something that can't go on forever won't. At some point it's not going to be possible for the .gov to pay back all of the money that's being borrowed. At that point, they'll have three options: 1) Stiff the borrowers: They'll be very reluctant to do this because it will reduce their ability to borrow in the future. 2) Confiscate wealth: They could do this by taking money out of bank accounts. The problem is that it would almost certainly cause a run on the banks as soon as people figured out what's going to happen. In addition, there would be court challenges. 3) Devalue the currency: The government uses some sort of scheme to basically print the money they need to pay the debt. The net effect is that there is a wealth transfer from the private sector to the government because the value of the currency in the private sector has been diluted by the influx of new currency.
None of the above is good. Unfortunately, I can also see them putting in places ways to get the value of your bullion if you want to cash it in. These are interesting times we're living in. And the above is all my opinion as well. I could be wrong and the government giveaway could go on forever...
Edited by Bret 04/28/2020 2:22 pm
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Rest in Peace
United States
2668 Posts |
Bret, who said it was borrowed?
They're Just printing electronically creating it.
Just think no worry about running out of other people's money.
Ever.
Think about it.
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Valued Member
United States
314 Posts |
Here's a tip. If interest rates are 0 or negative, you can borrow money for a really long time!
Seriously though, I would place the highest odds on us muddling thru. Oh there will be unpleasant times like '74 or '82 or 2009 or even this year but that's about it.
Now if you are a Venezuela, what you envision, is actually happening to you. But if you are an EU or a China or a Japan or the USA, very low probability of it ever happening. That would take 1000's of good men and woman to stand idly by while the streets turn into bloody chaos. That just won't happen. Some nameless bureaucrat in DC pushes a button and the ATMs are full. You are suggesting this guy/gal won't push the button? Or the guy/gal in the EU when faced with Greece or now Italy doesn't push their button? China is pushing their button with both thumbs, and we won't because why? Oh, you are suggesting that we push that button one too many times and now the rest of the world refuses USD?
Ever check USA King Dollar currency versus any other major currency on planet Earth? Looks like we're the responsible adult in the room.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4333 Posts |
@ Bret - all three options have been going on for years.
When I listen to LED ZEPPELIN...so do my neighbors... Roll hunting since '77 Dirt fishing since '72
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4333 Posts |
@ glenmorenee - more like the cleanest dirty shirt in the hamper!
When I listen to LED ZEPPELIN...so do my neighbors... Roll hunting since '77 Dirt fishing since '72
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2852 Posts |
@Bret, to add to your 3rd scenario.... the abandonment of fiat currency and adoption of crypotcurrency. As Boomers & Gen X'ers continue to disappear, I believe the younger generations will be most accepting of the crypto payment concept. Its very much in its infancy, but we're already witnessing it in.... BTC = as a storage of wealth, XRP/Ripple = instantaneous transfer of monies and FedCoin, just to name a few. $1.3 trillion spending bills to avoid govt shutdowns, $2+ trillion stimulus package and its easy to assume even more in the coming months/years ahead. The national deficit continues to grow & its never going to be repaid. I see the eventuality of the USD, to that of a heavily diluted, defunct stock.... it becomes outdated, worthless, abandoned and ultimately delisted, in favor of something new. Some may balk at the notion but I do think it is inevitable.
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Valued Member
United States
314 Posts |
@fistfulladirt(+ at least a little bit of color!) Exactly right. Unilateral printing or letting your economy go into the crapper or getting into a very nasty war are all very bad things. Didn't UK have a pretty good pile before WW2? Venezuela used to have a lot of gold but now the Rooskies have it. Our economy is the strongest so our currency is likewise despite the printing. All the majors print. The common denominator seems to be that if there are humans involved, there will be printing. By all means try the currency charts at https://www.xe.com/currencycharts/ For the moment they are very reassuring. It's nice being King Dollar and not Iran or Turkey or Venezuela or Argentina etc.
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Valued Member
United States
314 Posts |
@ coin rejector- Cryptos seems to be basically incompatible with gold people. I don't see how a gold person, don't trust the bank, hold the physical in my own hands type person, can really warm up to something that just sorta floats around in the cloud.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2852 Posts |
@glenmorenee, I absolutely agree w/ what you're saying, but I was referring to millennials and gen-z demographics, being the primary adopters. From my perspective, they're not into anything Boomers or Gen X'ers are into, including collecting coins. After watching/studying BTC for a bit, I think its only a matter of time before there is some form of digital-dollar.
Here's a fun story I love reminiscing about.... I had the chance to buy BTC back in '14/'15 when it initially crashed from $1,200 to $180, but I passed on it.... then it ran to nearly $20,000 in '17. Only missed out on a potential +10,000% ROI, oh well. Since the inception of the $GBTC (BTC tracking stock) its been something on my radar & I have my price targets in which I would personally consider buying/holding.
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Valued Member
United States
314 Posts |
@Brett said "At some point it's not going to be possible for the .gov to pay back all of the money that's being borrowed."
Look to Japan to see how governments are attempting to tackle their debt problems. At least this is my theory. You see this happening with everyday consumer loans also. Used to be an auto loan was what 3 years? Now they are 6 and even 7 years. Mortgages? Typically 30 right? Now there are even 50 year loans. Typical US Treasury Bond maximum was 30 years. I think Japan has 50 year bonds if not 100 year bonds already.
If you are betting on some big default, just watch Japan. They have the highest debt to GDP of any country. I've been to Japan though and my opinion is they will never have a problem.
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Replies: 75 / Views: 9,204 |