How Far Back Can We Go? Seventh Edition!

Outstanding!

Nice work @ttk!

Here is a Gros Tournois/Tournose from Cologne that seems datable to 1343 ad. I'm not seeing this coin listed on numista, although the description for a similar coin seems to mention this one (with a range of more than one year). acsearch seems more definitive, although I lack the Noss reference book which might help to confirm that it was only issued for this one year. Here are the links:

https://www.acsearch.info/search.ht...=1&es=1&ot=1¤cy=usd&order=0
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces308069.html

It turns out that the Noss catalog was added to the Internet Archive in 2024 (it's out of copyright in both USA and Germany). The 1343 issues start on page 29, followed by the 1344 type (number 61) and a bunch of other types that are clearly not your coin.

Unfortunately I was unable to figure out the distinction between types 47-61 (except the ones of wrong denomination). It seems to be mostly in precise shapes of the letters, and also very specific details of the shape of the mitre...


Unfortunately not true; it's indicating the Deutz mint (no relation even etymologically).

@j1m, thanks again for pointing out that Noss is online ... I've got a few of those dateable Cologne types, too.
Yeah, I'm not too sure about those comments in the MA-shops listing. There were lots of coins being struck in the Low Countries in styles imitative of English types (especially pennies), but using a portrait with a mitered bust is a bit far afield for that.

This Brabant half groat is attributed to an emission of October, 1343:

Very nice work @ttk considering you only have my pics to work with. I largely agree with you. Before I dive into my analysis, I should point out that Elsen attributed this as Noss 53, which I don't agree with. From what I can tell jsut by looking at the letterforms on the inscriptions, Noss 55c, 60, and 61 are candidates. To further downselect, I looked at the number of diamonds along the horizontal rim of the mitre. Some are missing, but the location of the one that *is* present indicates that it must be an even number (with odd numbers, the middle one is directly below that vertical strip of additional diamonds. This excludes Noss 61, with its 5 diamonds. In picking between Noss 55c and 60, it looks to me as though 55 doesn't have the tiny dots at the corners of the arches, which this coin does have. Moreover, in the description of Noss 60, it mentions the presence of two, 5-petalled rosettes on the mitre, which my coin has.

I am feeling pretty good about Noss 60 as the attribution, with its datable period being 1343. Please disagree if you see things differently though. Regardless, I think we can safely move back a year based on @tdz's sweet Half Groat!

Certainly not 61, given four diamonds rather than five. 60 looks good, though I couldn't quite tell what distinguishes it from 58.

I tried to look up the exact timing of the Brabant half groat, but couldn't find anything definite one way or another. In any case @Spence's turnose should be enough to push us back.

And nice coin from @ttkoo! I believe 1341 is another gap, so we might be stuck for a while again.

I'm a little behind on the discussion, but definitely triple for the reverse legends.

On the timing of the Brabant half-groat, I also could not find anything specific in Witte (in fact, there is a point in his discussion of the John III coins where he seems to say there are no records on the silver types, only on the gold).
I think there must be more recent scholarship that Elsen is using on the dates of some of the John III coins, because he does place a lot of them in specific years. (1337, 1338, 1339, 1343, 1344). In a couple of cases, we know the dating is related to documented events (in one case a visit by Edward III of England, and another case a monetary union with Flanders). But I have no idea on the 1343/1344 types.

Outstanding examples to edge us back!