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 Replies: 32 / Views: 8,465 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1648 Posts |
@SAP - Very interesting Yes there are some out there who show separation of the copper and zinc from a cent so commercial refiners can do so should prices rise enough for the metals to be salvaged individually or as you mention together for a profit, and of course is no longer illegal to melt one day. Copper prices could rise so high that there will be plenty of monetary incentive to trade bronze pennies in barter-style deals also worth way more than one cent as people are thinking about with silver as well without melting. . https://discover.hubpages.com/educa...from-a-Penny @Dan In Dec 2006 the US Mint made it illegal to melt both cents and nickels. A conviction for melting pennies and/or nickels can come with 5 years in prison and $10,000 in fines. The U.S. law that bans the melting of pennies and nickels also forbids taking more than $5 in face value in pennies and nickels beyond the nation's borders and "Individuals may ship up to $100 in these coins out of the country in any one shipment for legitimate coinage and numismatic purposes." Because melting pennies (and nickels) en masse could deplete the United States economy of its small coinage causing a major coin shortage. It would also be quite costly for the government and perhaps even futile for the U.S. government to try replacing the missing coins with more. It makes no sense for the U.S. Mint to try playing catchup with potentially millions of smelters picking away at the nation's supply of pennies. Just as fast as they'd be making new ones, folks would be melting other older ones. It would be a cost-prohibitive and infeasible prospect for the U.S. Mint. |
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Moderator
 Australia
16832 Posts |
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1. What is the penalty? Under 31 U.S. Code § 5111 section (d)(2), it's a fine of up to $10,000 and/or up to 5 years in prison. Quote:
2. If you were successful in separating the metal, how would anyone know it came from pennies? I don't think it would be possible to prove anything from the metal itself once the coins are destroyed. Theoretically, if the US Mint had sourced all of it's copper from the same mine, it would be possible to scientifically prove the origin of the metal using the natural isotope ratios and amounts of trace-level contaminants. They can do this sort of analysis for ancient and mediaeval coinage metal where the likelihood of "single source" metals is quite high. But there are no unique trace contaminants deliberately added to penny metal to "fingerprint" it, and the US Mint is not "single source" for its copper - it has sourced copper from so many different sources over the century-and-more of issuing copper coinage, so "copper pennies" don't have a unique chemical or physical signature when they're melted down and mixed together. They would need to prove it from your own records. 95% copper, 5% zinc is an unusual alloy that sees little use apart from coinage. If your company records showed that you purchased a bunch of pennies, then those pennies mysteriously disappeared at the same time as a large quantity of 95% copper alloy went into your feedstock, that would be pretty convincing circumstantial evidence. Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Moderator
United States
54282 Posts |
2,000 pounds of copper cents  Show your financial support of the Coin Community Family (click here)See my topic on Mexican Numismatic Medals (click here) |
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Moderator
United States
54282 Posts |
I can't find any cases of someone in the United States being prosecuted for melting coins.
Show your financial support of the Coin Community Family (click here)See my topic on Mexican Numismatic Medals (click here) |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
676 Posts |
oh no! I've started an argument!  But, some very interesting information, thanks everyone! Keep it up!  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2049 Posts |
I used to actively do this but stopped about 5 years ago. It just isn't practical from a weight and space standpoint at the prices today.
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Valued Member
United States
397 Posts |
I have so far hoarded over 26 kilos of copper pennies. Keep on hoarding!
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Valued Member
United States
125 Posts |
do it. and hoarde nickels too. Its a great way to feed that hoarding urge for really cheap.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
Hoarders of copper cents have one thing in common - they just don't understand how much effort is involved for such a tiny potential return. Imagine saving 5,000 copper cents ($50 face), and hauling them down to your LCS to sell at twice face (still not legal), deducting all the sorting time and gas, all for a $50 gain? Yikes!  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
807 Posts |
I admit that I separate bronze cents out when they circulate to me. That's partly out of curiosity, to see how many there are. It's a testament to the utter lack of durability of the zinc cents that even now, 40 years on, between 10% and 20% of cents I get in change are bronze. It strikes me that the per-piece savings in cost of production are probably more than balanced out by the much larger quantity which have to be produced, owing to the immense annual wastage.
Perhaps someone who wants to look through them for valuable specimens will offer me something over face for them, at some point. Or perhaps I'll use them as fodder for a coin-roller. Always good to have ten or so in your pocket, if you expect to go somewhere that has one of those roller machines.
I certainly wouldn't go buying rolls of cents just to separate out the bronze ones.
Edited by publius
06/14/2023 10:36 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2049 Posts |
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Hoarders of copper cents have one thing in common - they just don't understand how much effort is involved for such a tiny potential return.
Imagine saving 5,000 copper cents ($50 face), and hauling them down to your LCS to sell at twice face (still not legal), deducting all the sorting time and gas, all for a $50 gain?
Yikes! None of the local coin shops around here even want them. There is a guy at one that has accumulated quite a hoard and he wouldn't buy it for anything more than face value for his own stack. I just can't see the value in hoarding these right now, but maybe many years down the road they will be worthwhile. If you have the room to store these, the patience to wait for it to be worthwhile, and do find a buyer paying enough to make it worth it then more power to you. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4333 Posts |
@Coinfrog - if selling copper cents for profit isn't legal, how do people advertise and sell them, for instance ebay? Even my LCS buys copper wheats at 2-3 cents each. When I listen to LED ZEPPELIN...so do my neighbors...
Roll hunting since '77
Dirt fishing since '72
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
I did not mean to imply that selling copper cents was illegal - only that melting them is illegal. Most coin shops routinely pay a small premium over face for copper cents as a convenience to customers. They are not hoarding them for a melting gain, believe me. This accomodation is like free lolipops at the doctor's office.
Edited by Coinfrog
06/15/2023 7:57 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
25279 Posts |
One factor that penny hoarders are not considering is inflation. Example: my father bought two $50 bags of 1973-D cents back then because there was instability in the copper market. The buying power of a cent in 1973 is equivalent to 6.85 cents today. So essentially, sitting on those coins for 50 years resulted in a net loss, even considering that they contain 2.5 cents worth of copper. But uncirculated rolls are selling for over $3 on ebay, so in my case it's a wash. Imagine if the guy who accumulated 1 million pennies as was in the news recently had instead invested in silver or the stock market. His heirs would be better off and not have to deal with multiple tons of pennies. Inordinately fascinated by bits of metal with strange markings and figures
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
Amen to that. Just a curse.
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Replies: 32 / Views: 8,465 |
First Page
Posted 01/05/2023 6:04 pm
