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Counterfeit Trade Dollar [pics Added]

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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 06/14/2009  02:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The spikes are good enough cause for suspicion and further checking but spikes and tool marks appear on genuine coins as well. Once a particular coin is determined to be a counterfeit the spikes in their particular location can be used as a "fingerprint" to identify others from the same dies in the future but their mere existance on an unknown coin is not enough to call it a counterfeit.
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swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 06/14/2009  08:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Condor - your comment is 100% correct. They are not an adequate proof for the decision by themselves.

That is why I always begin my examination of any coin with the edge. The edge invariably has clues as to how the coin was actually made and an improper edge can be the basis for condemnation without looking any further. That was the case with this Trade dollar.



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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 06/15/2009  4:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree that the edge of that trade dolar does condemn it as a fake, it's just that this comment

Quote:
That means the items OldGoldKing spotted simply do not belong on an original coin.

worried me that someone reading it might have come to the conclusion that any spikes on a coin would mean it was counterfeit so I thought I needed to add my earlier comment for further clarification.
Forum Kid
thekidcollector's Avatar
Kuwait
1523 Posts
 Posted 06/15/2009  6:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thekidcollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I shall be going to China in a week or so.
When there I will buy tons of counterfeit Trade dollars for identification and souvenir purposes. Seeing as I read they are extremely cheap there, around $1-2.
When I get them I'll post man pictures.
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xshift's Avatar
United States
2669 Posts
 Posted 06/15/2009  7:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add xshift to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I shall be going to China in a week or so.
When there I will buy tons of counterfeit Trade dollars for identification and souvenir purposes. Seeing as I read they are extremely cheap there, around $1-2.
When I get them I'll post man pictures.


Excellent I can't wait to see them. (and have a great time!)
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swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 06/15/2009  11:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, the Trade dollar has arrived safely. I must admit that in person it looks a LOT better than in the pictures posted.

I agree with ANACS that it is a struck copy. This is not a cast coin. The dies were made by a transfer process that I suspect was casting - however - what ever method was used to make the transfer dies, the dies themselves were heavily re-worked to remove problems.

But I am getting ahead of myself. I usually start with a quick physical inspection including weight. The coin is essentially intact with a significant amount of "mint" luster. Color and ring are fine. Grade is near mint and there is no obvious loss of metal. The standard weight of a Trade dollar is 27.22 grams and it is 900 fine silver. I did notice that the edges of the coin have been artificially removed by filing around the entire perimeter. This would cause a loss of some metal but in my opinion not too much. I would expect the coin to weigh 27.1 grams or more.

I initially check weight with a 1/10th gram digital scale. I got 27.0 grams which is too low, in my opinion, for a coin in this grade even with the abrasive treatment observed at the "corners". So I get out my 4 beam analytical scale. The coin is definitely underweight - it weighs only a small fraction of a gram over 27 grams (27.03 grams exactly). That is light enough to raise my suspicions.

Because of the weight the next step is SG. The coin has a specific gravity of 10.12. The standard SG for a 90% silver alloy with 10% copper is 10.34. This is a very SERIOUS problem and coupled with the weight is usually enough to diagnose a fraud. Now it could be a mint made fraud, but in this particular series I am unaware of the existance of debased coins being produced IN the mint.

So my next step is a review with a 10X loupe starting with the edge. Here I got a surprise. The evidence for split tail reeding - which seemed so clear on the photos is actually far weaker in person. I was able to locate only three adjacent segments with a line at the top of the reed which might point to application of reeds with a ring die.

This caused me to get out the microscope more quickly than normal. I examined the entire edge of the coin at 30X. The reeds are simple V grooves with indication of a side to side die scraping motion. However, I noticed that 99% of the reed tops were polished after fine sanding. This is NOT normally seen on an original and points to a post fabrication alteration.

I can state with a very high degree of certainty that this is a struck coin. I do not believe the reeds were applied with a single or double die edging mill. I also do not believe a collar die was used in striking the coin. I believe this was reeded with a ring die but then a significant effort was made to conceal that fact. The square edges between the faces and the edge were ground fully around the perimeter at least TWO times on each face. The grinding was apparently done against an abrasive wheel. The coin was spun while being held against the wheel. This appears to be done by hand because the groves produced are slightly irregular but the angle of the grooves is generally consistent. There is one metal flake that resulted from a tiny delamination of the planchet below the 1 in the date. This delamination was folded back by the edge grinding and it covers one of the dentils partially.

I then looked at both faces with 30X and higher magnification concentrating on three critical elements:
1. The fields and any irregularities 2. Fine details and edges of details and 3. The dentils.

I discovered several serious problems and clues to die preparation.

The dies were prepared from an original host coin and the transfer was likely either spark erosion or direct casting in a fine matrix material. There are traces of individual element repunching that appear on the host coin. The dies after transfer were heavily tooled probably under a microscope to remove most traces of how the dies were made. The fields were smoothed by lapping resulting in dies that produce a nice artificial mint luster when struck. The dies were ground slightly convex as they should be.

I am leaning toward a fine grained casting (like dental plastic) because I discovered an arc shaped scratch in one field that was partially erase by lapping. This results in a series of disconnects in what otherwise looks like a die scratch (a raised line segment). I suspect dental plastic was used because the arc resembles a simple cut in a soft surface. It is RAISED on the coin but is discontinuous. There are numerous straight raised line segments as well which are an indication filing of the die. These lines are normal on all older dies and are caused by repair lapping to extend die life. But overall the dies were properly finished with a slightly convex shape because the coin surfaces rise near the edges. This is a surprising feature to see since most forgers miss that detail.

The finest details are POOR with no sharp edges which is an obvious clue to a transfer process. However, a very heavily worn die could produce very similar results. This possibility is mitigated against by the fact that you rarely ever see a coin struck from a heavily worn Trade dollar die. I suspect the mint keep up die quality simply because they were Trade dollars and needed to be accepted in business. Worn dies produce suspicious looking coins (they all look like casts) so they would not be well received especially in an era when counterfeiting was extensive and trust was minimal.

There is clear evidence of tooling with a stylus because of raised line segments on the high points of the coin. This means that the die has scratches in the deepest recesses of the dies. The deep recesses are seen as the high points of the design - letter surfaces tops of branches etc. This points to a great deal of work being done on the dies to eliminate problems. This is an added step that makes the forgery a bit harder to spot.

There are a few round raised spots on the coin that resemble casting voids. They result in RAISED rounded lumps. They are small and most were removed, but enough remain to arouse additional suspicions. I even found what I believe are traces of the removal effort in one spot. The die surface was scraped and the scrapes are visible on the finished coin.

Based on a few surface voids that show effects of compression by the force of the strike - I believe the planchet was cast. This is not conclusive but I see no evidence of rolling. I could see no planchet scratches (like adjustment lines). I have taken some close up pictures and I will try to post some of them tomorrow.

This coin is perhaps the most deceptive modern fake that I have seen in at least a year. These are quite dangerous for novices. I don't think a cautious collector who weighs and does SG's would be fooled.
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xshift's Avatar
United States
2669 Posts
 Posted 06/16/2009  08:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add xshift to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow.. so it would be very easy to be fooled by this coin in-hand until you got it home for testing. By doing that, though, you'd need to take it out of whatever packaging it's in (slab, 2x2), therefore voiding any return policy if you discover it's fake. Unless testing is done right in front of whoever is selling you the coin.

So now we have some things to add to the list of items to look at besides listed in this post here on the first page: https://goccf.com/t/47220#376053

Thank you so much for your in-depth analysis, swamperbob.. can't wait for the close-up shots!
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swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 06/16/2009  11:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
xshift If this coin was slabbed it would be hard to diagnose as a forgery - I would be suspicious but without a 30X or higher microscope I would be suspicious but I would not offer a firm opinion. A hand held loupe is really not quite enough here unless you have a lot of experience with the type. This is the type I would not spend enough time on at a show to realize it was a fake.

In a 2x2, if I could bend the cardboard enough to clearly see how the edge was filed - that would be one step closer and I would ask a dealer if I could remove the coin from the holder.

I think it is very fortunate for the buying public that mint luster does NOT show well in photos. Pictures also do not show the convex nature of the dies used. These two factors taken together are why it looks so much better in person than in pictures. Now that forgers have mastered the technique we are going to be in a bit more trouble.

One other comment - imagine if the forger had only used 900 fine silver from cull Morgans to make their planchet. That is what scares me.

I am working on posting the pictures but since I have gotten this new computer I haven't quite figured it out yet.
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swamperbob's Avatar
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 Posted 06/16/2009  8:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have finally figured out how to post pictures using my new PC. It is far harder than spotting counterfeits in my opinion.

The first picture is the discontinuous arc I spoke about earlier. The line is cut into the die surface and raised as it appears on the coin. The line is a die feature. This photo is from the area between the eagle's right wing and leg. It is magnified about 300X. The appearance of the cut in the die points to a very soft matrix. The cut is a smooth arc which is difficult to produce on a steel die face. It should also have striations cut into the steel parallel with the arc. NONE are actually present. The smooth surface of this "cut" indicates to me that it was done when the matrix material of the die was still wet.

Also notice a small raised circle and an adjacent triangular blob of metal on the coin surface. This feature is one of those anomalies seen most often on counterfeits made with cast dies. They are by themselves NOT conclusive evidence of forgery but when taken all together they should arouse suspicion.

Counterfeit-Trade-Dollar-[pics-Added]

The following picture is of the tip of the 2nd T in States (magnification is 300X). If you notice there are clear scratches (raised lines on the coin) at the deepest point of the die impression which is the TOP of the letter on the coin. This is clear evidence of die tooling after the die was cast and it had hardened. This is done to sharpen the image and to reduce evidence of casting. Cast dies often have the impressions (letters for example) clogged with die material. The forger (a cautious one) will remove that evidence (lumps and blobs).


Counterfeit-Trade-Dollar-[pics-Added]

Here is the lower portion of the same T. Notice two things - first the feature I circled in red. That is a raised ovoid shape around a raised dot. It looks like a lop sided bull's eye. But it is a die feature. The cause? A Broken Bubble on the die surface that formed while it was still wet. The die surface was deformed by the bubble formed when they removed the host coin. The second feature to note is the notch at the junction of the side of the letter with the serif at the bottom right. I am not familiar enough with the Trade dollars to know if a defective punch was used to create the reverse hub. But this notch feature happens a lot on inside right angles on transfer dies made by casting. There are TWO letter T's on this coin but only one has the defect


Counterfeit-Trade-Dollar-[pics-Added]

This next image is of the dentils below the 1 in the date. There is a small delamination folded over the surface caused by the abrasive grinding of the edge. This was done when the sharp edge was removed from the coin. It points to the coin NOT being circulated extensively after that point in time. This piece of metal should have fallen away easily.

Counterfeit-Trade-Dollar-[pics-Added]

This next picture illustrates what I refer to as one of those places where you should see a sharply demarcated edge but instead there are numerous raised pieces of excess metal. This is the 20 from the 420 GRAINS under the eagle.

Counterfeit-Trade-Dollar-[pics-Added]

This last picture is one of those stray lumps. Only this lump is special - at least to my eye. Does anyone have a guess as to what I see as a particular problem with this group of lumps?

Counterfeit-Trade-Dollar-[pics-Added]
Edited by swamperbob
06/16/2009 8:55 pm
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Jaobler's Avatar
United States
6390 Posts
 Posted 06/16/2009  9:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jaobler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Swamperbob,
Thanks for your fantastic analysis of this deceptive forgery. You have done a great service for those of us who are not expert in the delicate art and science of Counterfeit Detection. Hats off to you sir!

Regarding your question about the lumps: they look like the effect of die rust. Similar features are fairly common on, say, some bust quarters from the 1830's. Would such rusted-die artifacts be inconsistent with Trade dollar dies manufactured in the 1870's?
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swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 06/17/2009  12:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Jaobler Simple rust can produce similar features on struck coins. That is why I never use ONLY lumps to diagnose a forgery. But taken all together coupled with the other problems they all add up.

Normally when I see "rusty dies" I simply look more carefully. Lumps caused by rust are VERY common - so I hope everyone doesn't use them alone to diagnose a fake.

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xshift's Avatar
United States
2669 Posts
 Posted 06/19/2009  11:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add xshift to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Swamperbob.. so is that what that particular set of lumps is supposed to be or look like?

Thanks again for going over this coin so minutely! It has been a good learning experience.
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rustyboy's Avatar
United States
278 Posts
 Posted 06/19/2009  12:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rustyboy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Can you explain the SG measurement in detail? With constant dimensions, the .23 or 2% difference should be evidenced in the weight. Only a fraction of a percent was noticed in the weight. How consistent was the mint in preparing the .900 fineness? IE does this 2% difference represent 3 standard deviations or a fraction of a standard deviation, etc?
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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23522 Posts
 Posted 06/19/2009  12:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Does anyone have a guess as to what I see as a particular problem with this group of lumps?



Quote:
Regarding your question about the lumps: they look like the effect of die rust.


Something stands out with this picture to me, but only within the limited experience I have observing die rust. I've looked at quite a few rusted-die Morgans, mostly 1921's but some from other years, and none of them show the sharp delineation - the "edge" - I see on the bottom of the largest, topmost patch. What I've seen is more like individual pinpoints, some of which are grouped into larger areas of rust, but you can still imagine how each point you see started as a single point.

Given what swamperbob said previously about the care lavished on Trade dollar production, the concept of allowing die rust to progress to this point at all doesn't fit.
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Electric_Op_Ltd's Avatar
United States
183 Posts
 Posted 06/20/2009  5:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Electric_Op_Ltd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The reeding is a dead giveaway :-D

Bruce
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