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Valued Member
rikcando's Avatar
Canada
287 Posts
 Posted 10/24/2010  9:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rikcando to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
oh yeah, gotta be the paint fumes gettin' to my head. That one was totally lost on me. Think I'll take an 8 hour nap and read this all through agin.
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xshift's Avatar
United States
2669 Posts
 Posted 10/25/2010  09:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add xshift to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
rikcando, Scooby was actually correct (don't forget to mark the calendar!) about the 156 for 13 cards but only if he was using permutations, where order matters. Since order doesn't matter, combinations would be used, which brings it down to 78.

That being said, you are also correct when saying there are 52 cards, and JJ and 66 need taken into consideration - and only using 13 cards would not do that. So we'd have to calculate combinations based on 52 cards, not 13.

My previous post of:
132600 3-number combinations
2652 2-number combinations
Those are wrong as I accidentally permut'ed instead of combin'ed. Those were based on 52 cards.

So:
22100 3-number combinations
1326 2-number combinations
-----
23426 possible combinations
- ? duplicates
=====

As rikcando said, some could be doubles, so those need eliminated. For any given combination 3 of the 8 available cannot be used (the other 3 duplicates of the first number choice).


Valued Member
rikcando's Avatar
Canada
287 Posts
 Posted 10/25/2010  10:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rikcando to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm glad to see that what I had envisioned was not totally wrong, thanks for that. I would really love to help work out the actual result but I'm just too busy now. I picked up a new 6 week project today that must be in production by Nov.16th, and my last project is scheduled for commissioning tomorrow morning. I'll probably be scarce for the next couple of weeks.

Good luck with this.
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xshift's Avatar
United States
2669 Posts
 Posted 10/25/2010  10:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add xshift to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If we just calculate the actual number of winning combinations, it will automatically eliminate duplicates as being good combos. With anything as the 2nd number good, including either of the choice numbers..

Jack(1) Ace(1) 6(1)
Jack(1) Ace(2) 6(1)
etc
You get 46 for Jack(1) (any good card) 6(1)
then go on to Jack(1) Ace(1) 6(2)
Comes out to 736.

There are 16 J6 2-number combos.

Feel free to correct me

Starting to wonder, though, if we really should use permutations. Combination J-Ace-6 would not be valid as a 3-number winner if it was Ace-J-6 (it would qualify as a 2-number winner but our calculations would be all off. Not like they aren't now )

I'll check back later, gotta git bizy.
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xshift's Avatar
United States
2669 Posts
 Posted 10/25/2010  10:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add xshift to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Good luck with your new project rikcando!
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xshift's Avatar
United States
2669 Posts
 Posted 10/25/2010  1:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add xshift to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Permutations.. there are 132600 3-card permutations and 2652 2-card permutations.

4/52 of those permutations will start with J - 4/52 of *those* will end in 6
4/52 of those permutations will start with 6 - 4/52 of *those* will end in J
= 1569 3-card winning combos

16 2-card winning combos.

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xshift's Avatar
United States
2669 Posts
 Posted 10/25/2010  2:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add xshift to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So you're in a field containing 135252 poppies, and you have 52 tries to pick one of 1585 right ones.

1585 (winning combos) / (135252 (possible combos) / 52 (slots) = 61%
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Scooby Due's Avatar
United States
4000 Posts
 Posted 10/25/2010  2:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Scooby Due to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Too low of an expected win %, something's not quite right. I wish some of our mathematicians would chime in.
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United States
539 Posts
 Posted 10/25/2010  2:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add weavus135 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
reminds me of a joke, how many CCF members does it take to guess the correct number of permutations and the odds of getting 1 jack and a 2 of clubs on the first roll of 5 dice.... oh wait, that wasn't the original questions was it?

and if all of this is coming from non mathematicians....it is no wonder I will starve if I had to live on scooby snacks LOL
Valued Member
rikcando's Avatar
Canada
287 Posts
 Posted 10/25/2010  3:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rikcando to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
You get 46 for Jack(1) (any good card) 6(1)

I'd like to see how you came up with 46.
52 minus all J's and 6's = 44
52 minus just this J and 6 = 50
52 minus this J and 6 and remaining 6's = 47

What did I miss?
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Scooby Due's Avatar
United States
4000 Posts
 Posted 10/25/2010  4:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Scooby Due to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I figured this would provoke some interesting discussion on how to tackle the problem. I have worked on it off and on for a few years, but have never been satisfied that I had the right formula.
Valued Member
rikcando's Avatar
Canada
287 Posts
 Posted 10/25/2010  4:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rikcando to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Taking a minute out from making dinner.

Is this correct?

You can have 52 positions that a J6 could occur. Another 52 position that 6J could occur. (104)
You can have 52 positions that a Jx6 could occur. Another 52 position that 6xJ could occur. (104)
104+104=208 possible positions for a match.

Now I have 4 jack that can match with any of the four 6's giving me 16 winning card combinations.

Therefore I can have a total of 16 matches in 208 positions.
16*208 = 3328 possible winning combinations in a deck.

Now, how many total combinations in a deck?
Valued Member
rikcando's Avatar
Canada
287 Posts
 Posted 10/25/2010  4:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rikcando to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
You can have 52 positions that a Jx6 could occur. Another 52 position that 6xJ could occur. (104)

WRONG!
x = 1 and should have been 50

Maybe not a good approach.
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Scooby Due's Avatar
United States
4000 Posts
 Posted 10/25/2010  4:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Scooby Due to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That's what I keep coming back to as well.

So, I have 3328 chances to find 156 possible combinations. Again, I think.

So, 21.3 to 1 that I will find your cards? 95.5% seems a little high, but a little closer to what I have experienced.
Valued Member
rikcando's Avatar
Canada
287 Posts
 Posted 10/25/2010  4:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rikcando to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The real question is that there are 52! ways to arrange the cards. How many of these arrangements contain a J6/6J/Jx6/6xJ?


Hmm imagine the arrangement ...xxxJ6J6J6xxx...
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