Coin Community Forum

Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes.

300,000 items to help build your collection!

Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer

Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall

Royal Estate Auctions - $1 Coin Auctions

Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors

Search Coin Community

CCF Social Media

Coin Community Time

Be a Site Supporter

General

Facebook Pinterest Youtube Channel Stamp Forum Coin Forum Mints Spot Prices Numismatic Search Engine Numismatic Glossary Numismatic Articles Numismatic Event Calendar Numismatic People Appraising A Coin Collection Advertise Here Contact Us

CCF Recommended

eBay Amazon MA-Shops

US Coins & Currency

US Coin Facts US Colonial Coins US Mint Sets US Proof Sets US Pattern Coins US Coin Grading US Coin History US Classic Commemorative Facts US Paper Money Facts

Australian Coins

Perth Mint NCLT Mintages Perth Mint Coin Programs Perth Mint Latest Releases

Canadian Coins

Canadian Coin Facts Canadian Coin Grading Canadian Commemoratives

eBay Coin Shopping

Search CCF Members

eBay Tools eBay Coin Search Engine eBay Coin Categories All eBay Categories eBay / CCF Member List eBay / CCF Member Sales Popular Items Error Coins US Error Coins US Cheap Coins US Hot Coins US Most Watched Coins Aussie Cheap Coins Aussie Hot Coins Aussie Most Watched Coins Canadian Cheap Coins Canadian Hot Coins Canadian Most Watched Coins Ancient Cheap Coins Ancient Hot Coins Ancient Most Watched Coins World Cheap Coins World Hot Coins World Most Watched Coins eBay Coins By Type eBay Coins By Year

Active Users

There are currently 103,221 users on this website.

Stuff for Members

Recent Forum Topics

Last 100 Active Topics Last 100 New Topics

New CCF Member Sales

For Sale: 6 Tubes (50 Coins/Tube) Of 90% Silver Circulated Roosevelt Dimes For Sale : $2 FRN 2017A Star Notes, Consecutive Serials Lot Of 10x Morgan Silver Dollars $1 PCGS MS-66+ 1882-S Morgan $1 For Sale: 500 Schilling, Richard Strauss Commemorative - Big Silver Coin For Sale: BU 1904-O Morgan Silver Dollar Coin Community Selling Rules - Updated June 5, 2025 Coin Community Selling Questions

Home Member CCF Sales Member eBay Sales New Posts Unanswered Search Tutorials FAQ Rules

This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads and the security checks. It's Free!

All Forums Search Form Search Results for: All non-archived Topics that contain posts by numismatic biz. There are 137 results found.

	Topic	Author	Replies	Read	Last Post
US Coins and Currency Discussion Forums / US Classic and Colonial Coins
	What Does Your Desk Currently Look Like? I Cannot Keep Up... 1 2 Last	peaece13 05/21/2015	18	3333	05/22/2015 2:37 pm by: Afab67
	How Was This Coin Cleaned?	jack jeckel 04/12/2013	8	1480	04/13/2013 3:02 pm by: DBM
	Fake 1862 IHC On Ebay	Drsandman2 04/01/2013	5	1450	04/04/2013 12:10 am by: Drsandman2
	Owe Me Money...pay In Gold...i Like That 1 2 Last	mds308 03/27/2013	17	2813	03/28/2013 09:54 am by: Moe145
US Coins and Currency Discussion Forums / US Commemoratives and Non-Circulating Coinage (NCLT) Including Grading, Varieties, and Errors
	Would An Isabella Proof Coin That Was Only Struck Be PL	lovecoins 06/14/2015	9	1939	06/15/2015 10:24 pm by: LeeG
US Coins and Currency Discussion Forums / US Paper Money and Banknotes
	Why Are So Many People Opposed To A US $200 Bill? 1 2 3 4 Last	Fox 10/04/2013	55	7765	09/09/2024 12:01 pm by: jbuck
	Project $25k- Circulating 2 Dollar Bills 1 2 3 4 5 =>54 55 56 57 58 Last	1967Canadapenny 03/27/2013	856	76155	10/30/2015 9:13 pm by: Fuzzy317
	Value Of 3 1976 Star Notes $2	numismatic biz 05/10/2013	4	2064	05/10/2013 11:29 am by: oih82w8
General Numismatic Discussion Forums / Main Coin Forum
	The Coin World Was A Buzz 20 Yrs Ago... 1 2 Last	Cascade 05/24/2015	19	3779	05/28/2015 5:14 pm by: jbuck
	Secret Santa - Holiday Exchange 2014 1 2 3 4 5 =>34 35 36 37 38 Last	rggoodie 10/22/2014	558	63310	04/03/2015 09:09 am by: thedollarman
	Todays Swap Meet Score. Cheap Silver!	keepcalmandcoinon 03/29/2014	9	1672	03/31/2014 11:33 pm by: nalaberong
	How Many People Are Concerned With Counterfeit Coins ?	pocket change 50 11/18/2013	10	2441	11/19/2013 12:02 am by: Wade
	Silver Fineness Question (Foreign Coin)	SilverTracker 05/16/2013	2	1169	05/16/2013 4:01 pm by: SilverTracker
	David Lawrence Rare Coins 1 2 Last	Wornslick 04/29/2013	27	10661	05/10/2013 11:33 am by: Wornslick
	Refreshing To See Some Websites Who Don't Gouge So Much! 1 2 Last	BuffalosRock 04/19/2013	22	3832	04/26/2013 8:04 pm by: Tbone
	Hoarding Commemorative Coins 1 2 Last	1967Canadapenny 04/10/2013	23	2949	04/13/2013 9:33 pm by: 52Raymo
	Ebay And South Korea	allranger 04/11/2013	7	1610	04/12/2013 9:53 pm by: gxseries
General Numismatic Discussion Forums / Tokens, Medals, Challenge Coins, and other Exonumia
	Iran - Persian Medallion?	Coinaholic73 05/08/2015	4	3376	05/08/2015 3:33 pm by: Coinaholic73
	Unknown British? Token	jdmern 04/16/2015	4	1375	04/16/2015 9:15 pm by: numismatic biz
	Very Small Japanese Mark Or Chinese Medal	shanew 02/06/2014	7	1400	02/06/2014 06:47 am by: shanew
	Value Of This 1779 French Jeton?	Barbados25 10/16/2013	9	3628	10/18/2013 9:42 pm by: BillSnyder
	1882 Egypt Coin? Aluminum? 1.2g \| Replica Egypt Medal	pdm12772 04/01/2013	4	2532	04/01/2013 12:40 pm by: numismatic biz
General Numismatic Discussion Forums / Identification: Unidentified Coins, Medals, and Tokens
	1844 Shilling Please Help	Leylith 01/18/2016	7	12754	01/18/2016 7:58 pm by: Leylith
	Costume Sequin Or A Coin ?	Pertinax 03/22/2014	3	1150	03/22/2014 6:02 pm by: alganbagerap
	Churchill Coin Or Token?	jrddecker 04/29/2013	2	920	04/29/2013 05:41 am by: numismatic biz
	Coin, Token Or Slug?	dsdurkes 04/25/2013	5	1586	04/29/2013 02:15 am by: Airw0lf
	France Token Or ? 1793 Louis XVI	LondonCoin 04/22/2013	4	2259	04/23/2013 12:24 pm by: LondonCoin
	China Kwangtung Province Coins	ErikP 04/13/2013	8	3186	04/16/2013 04:36 am by: ErikP
General Numismatic Discussion Forums / Third Party Coin Grading (TPG): PCGS, NGC, ANACS, ICG, ETC.
	ICG (International Currency Grading) Paper Money TPG?	Altaira 11/22/2014	5	7492	12/11/2014 11:38 pm by: CCCS
General Numismatic Discussion Forums / Precious Metals and Bullion - Gold, Silver, Copper, Platinum
	Anyone Ever Bought From Chards.co.uk? Taxfreegold.co.uk?	harrison2 11/18/2015	4	2213	11/19/2015 12:14 pm by: Tom Goodheart
	Where To Buy Coin Tubes In UK	Arksun 04/25/2013	7	4500	04/27/2013 09:08 am by: Fat Freddy
Australia, New Zealand, and South Pacific (Oceania) Coins and Currency Discussion Forums / Coin, Bank Note, and Paper Money Grading: Australia, New Zealand, & South Pacific (Oceania)
	1927 Florin Pure White Colour	shanew 03/17/2014	13	3076	03/18/2014 03:19 am by: coinsaus
Canadian Coins and Currency Discussion Forums / Canadian Coins and Colonial Tokens
	Question About Toning	halfdollardan 05/11/2015	11	2010	05/26/2015 2:20 pm by: numismatic biz
	Counterfeit And Quiz 1 2 3 Last	DBM 04/11/2013	38	5340	05/25/2013 12:55 am by: kuh_85
	Counterfeit New Brunswick Copper Penny's And Cent's	rob9099 04/11/2013	11	2349	04/13/2013 11:09 am by: canadacoinguy
Canadian Coins and Currency Discussion Forums / Canadian Commemoratives and Non-Circulating Coinage (NCLT)
	Silver Plate 2014 Superman Captain America Spiderman Coin Se	pocket change 50 12/03/2015	3	1416	12/04/2015 10:48 am by: bobby131313
World Coins and Currency Discussion Forums / World Coins and Commemoratives
	Is It Original Thaler, Or Copy	jaunas3 09/08/2021	4	984	10/06/2021 03:47 am by: Albert
	Mozambique Escudo 1936 $150.00?	Paul St Louis 12/29/2016	4	1111	12/31/2016 10:13 pm by: Numismat
	French 1897 5 Centimes Is $53.00 Expensive For This Coin?	Sly923 09/29/2016	7	1237	09/30/2016 08:09 am by: Sly923
	France 5 Francs 1848 Specimen (?)	DagonX 06/11/2015	3	1281	06/12/2015 1:40 pm by: DagonX
	Hungary 2 Filler 1900. Rare Date. Genuine?	worldnumis 03/26/2015	1	1982	03/26/2015 10:55 pm by: numismatic biz
	1752 CA Austrian Ducat Modern Forgery (Gs)	colonialjohn 12/02/2014	2	1795	12/02/2014 5:39 pm by: numismatic biz
	Ebay Questionable Crowns 1 2 Last	plonker 11/15/2014	17	3060	11/30/2014 9:51 pm by: Numismat
	Heads Up Another Load Of Fakes On Ebay	numismatic biz 11/23/2014	10	2388	11/24/2014 4:32 pm by: bobby131313
	Fake Costa Rica Counterstamp On 8 Reales	dosmundos 03/20/2014	11	3145	03/28/2014 12:33 pm by: realeswatcher
	Guadeloupe Countermark On Brit 3 Pence - Cast Coin And C/M?	Numismat 03/20/2014	6	1126	03/21/2014 12:28 pm by: realeswatcher
	Tunisia 1953 10 Franc	Numisto 12/18/2013	4	1283	12/22/2013 06:18 am by: Numismat
	1853 Em 5 Kopeks Russia. Real Or Fake?	zypronix 11/17/2013	13	4022	11/25/2013 12:25 am by: Numismat
	Ebay Takes Out Two Perfectly Genuine French Piastres!	coinworldtv 11/17/2013	10	1614	11/18/2013 8:46 pm by: Numismat
	1877 France 5 Francs	supgog 09/15/2013	3	1092	09/17/2013 11:33 am by: SeriousCERES
	A Lttile Help With Hungarian 20 Krajczar From 1868kb	Chris 05/14/2013	3	1429	05/16/2013 2:56 pm by: Chris
	Finally Made It To 200 Countries.	allranger 05/10/2013	11	1739	05/13/2013 10:15 pm by: augsburger
	Star Dates On Spanish Pesetas	Gwyde 04/29/2013	5	7116	04/30/2013 3:14 pm by: LlacerSBD
	Suspect French 5 Francs 1869Bb	Pertinax 04/28/2013	9	1222	04/30/2013 12:42 am by: SeriousCERES
	Mint Mark Uncertainty	plonker 04/28/2013	1	1003	04/29/2013 06:33 am by: numismatic biz
	Russia 1728 Rouble	ultra 04/26/2013	4	1171	04/26/2013 7:56 pm by: gxseries
	Industrial Themed World Coins	JimmyJames 04/02/2013	14	1720	04/07/2013 1:47 pm by: nalaberong
	Turkey Gold 100 Kurush	ultra 04/04/2013	3	2818	04/05/2013 06:45 am by: ultra
	Identification Needed- Portuguese Coin \| Azores 20 Reis	sjh241 03/23/2013	3	1060	03/23/2013 8:26 pm by: sjh241
	British India Rupees	leadenhall 03/15/2013	5	1413	03/20/2013 7:44 pm by: brokencompass
	Schleswig-Holstein 60 Schilling 1801 Contemporary Forgery?	monarch 03/14/2013	1	997	03/14/2013 5:19 pm by: numismatic biz
World Coins and Currency Discussion Forums / World Variety and Error Coins
	What Should I Look For In India	Mayflower2020 10/28/2016	2	1485	10/30/2016 01:42 am by: Mayflower2020
	UK 1986 2 Pence Circular Markings	CudLee 11/05/2015	4	2163	11/06/2015 10:49 pm by: CudLee
	1929-S Finland - Legit Error?	steve123 04/22/2015	5	1660	04/22/2015 9:56 pm by: gxseries
	Spain 25 Peseta Barcelonas - Weak Strike/Grease/Fake?	darcyrmt 03/18/2015	3	1870	03/20/2015 6:14 pm by: numismatic biz
	Bolivia 50 Centavos 1894 Struck Using A Smashed Die	numismatic biz 11/09/2014	1	1508	11/09/2014 8:42 pm by: DVCollector
	Greece KM107 1 Drachma (1973)	chzman 03/25/2014	4	2424	03/26/2014 10:05 am by: chzman
	Switzerland 1907 20 Rappen - Can It Be A Proof?	loose54 05/08/2013	3	1668	05/09/2013 3:35 pm by: SeriousCERES
	Recent South Africa 10 And 20 Cent Oddities	thebugguy 05/03/2013	5	3051	05/05/2013 07:25 am by: enworb
	Process For Determining Type Of 2 Euro Edges	everycountrycoins 04/24/2013	3	1497	04/26/2013 01:38 am by: everycountrycoins
World Coins and Currency Discussion Forums / World Coin Grading
	Norway 1810 2 Skilling Courant - High Grade	bungle 10/29/2016	15	4087	02/21/2017 4:09 pm by: Prncoins
	Another Vic Rupee To Grade Please	Palouche 10/16/2015	3	1661	10/17/2015 08:21 am by: Palouche
	1902 Maundy 3-D	trout1105 06/16/2015	13	2183	08/04/2015 6:54 pm by: trout1105
	Belgium 5 Francs 1871	georok 10/11/2014	10	2531	10/27/2014 11:17 am by: georok
	1758 English Shilling	serial 05/10/2013	3	1802	06/19/2014 01:30 am by: serial
	1751 English Shilling	serial 05/10/2013	8	2722	06/19/2014 01:29 am by: serial
	East India Company 1825 2 Pice	gcb 12/18/2013	5	2596	12/19/2013 07:37 am by: Joseph7420
	1904 Bremen 2 Mark	JimmyJames 06/22/2013	1	1382	06/22/2013 3:22 pm by: numismatic biz
	1687 English 2 Pence	serial 05/10/2013	2	1275	05/10/2013 08:10 am by: Pertinax
	British India 1900c Rupee	leadenhall 03/30/2013	5	1908	04/02/2013 7:22 pm by: IndiaCoins
	2.5 Shillings South Africa 1893	Spencer76 04/02/2013	1	1256	04/02/2013 5:34 pm by: numismatic biz
	1917-H Egypt 10 Piastres	raybutler 03/27/2013	2	1559	03/27/2013 11:29 am by: raybutler
World Coins and Currency Discussion Forums / World Paper Money and Banknotes
	Grading Taiwan 10000 Yuan 1948	Ark 09/14/2013	4	3905	06/18/2019 09:08 am by: jbuck
	Post Your Notes Depicting Locomotives!	Lucky Cuss 03/07/2015	13	3752	07/01/2016 2:04 pm by: techwriter
	World Banknotes	VictoryBullion 04/27/2015	3	2328	06/07/2015 10:06 am by: Bacchus2
	1878 Japan One Yen Pick#17	amida17 12/08/2013	3	2043	12/09/2013 3:22 pm by: numismatic biz
	1983 Cyprus 10 Pound Note Value	noahs-numismatics 09/10/2013	5	3622	09/16/2013 09:34 am by: noahs-numismatics
	Paper Money Used In Palestine/Egypt During Ottoman Empire	AJL 03/29/2013	3	3242	05/13/2013 2:58 pm by: AJL
	More Green British Banknotes (Seperate Sellers)	Johnsderry 05/12/2013	1	1447	05/13/2013 04:07 am by: numismatic biz
	Does Anybody Know A Dealer For World Paper Money In Bulk?	jkol2369 04/02/2013	5	3685	04/03/2013 8:27 pm by: jkol2369
World Coins and Currency Discussion Forums / United Kingdom (Great Britain) Coins
	Grime On Gold Sovereigns	stgaudens 07/28/2021	9	1903	08/13/2021 07:12 am by: Mr T
	Enameld 1887 Florin Pin	amida17 03/16/2013	4	1825	05/01/2018 05:21 am by: Squire Wilson
	Fake Â£1 1 2 3 4 5 =>18 19 20 21 22 Last	Bacchus2 07/08/2012	319	64715	06/06/2016 04:15 am by: Archraz
	The Royal Mint Launches Uks First £50 For £50 Face Value Coin	CCFPress 11/30/2015	8	3368	01/16/2016 11:19 am by: Demarco Bishopp
	1853 Florin - Real Or Fake?	EFLargeCents 01/03/2016	3	1667	01/06/2016 5:39 pm by: EFLargeCents
	GB Proof Sets Questions	Greg8904 02/05/2014	4	1691	06/30/2015 3:26 pm by: Antony
	1819 British Six Pence \| Contemporary Counterfeit	steve123 06/04/2015	6	2583	06/07/2015 10:35 am by: Beeston1990
	Need Advice On 1797 Twopence (Uk)	zxcccxz 05/19/2015	3	1294	05/21/2015 10:58 am by: GR58
	£2 Coin Stamping Defect. What's It Worth	Mr_T 04/16/2015	7	1478	04/17/2015 09:49 am by: Mr_T
	Bank Of England 1804 Dollar Overstrike	worldnumis 04/02/2015	5	1687	04/06/2015 8:29 pm by: swamperbob
	Wreath Crown Fever....	Anaximander 12/04/2014	8	2340	12/22/2014 2:37 pm by: Pacificoin
	Cook Island Dollar	Lamby75 12/02/2014	3	1535	12/02/2014 5:24 pm by: numismatic biz
	UK New Pound Coin Designed To Combat Counterfeiting 1 2 Last	numismatic biz 10/06/2014	16	3773	10/09/2014 2:46 pm by: DaytR
	British Coins, Please Help Me With A Price Guide In Dollars? 1 2 Last	thedollarman 10/03/2014	17	3519	10/04/2014 1:08 pm by: Tryna
	Gothic Crown	Gothic 09/15/2014	6	1997	09/15/2014 2:02 pm by: BobG
	1758 George II Shilling 1 2 Last	zxcccxz 03/29/2014	16	3688	03/30/2014 3:16 pm by: zxcccxz
	Estimated Value Of Coin Collection?	Greg8904 03/28/2014	9	2186	03/28/2014 10:46 pm by: paxbrit
	Help With Grading Of Shilling's And Half Crown Please.	awallin01 03/26/2014	13	1997	03/28/2014 5:31 pm by: Paulus
	Pre Decimal Prices	Greg8904 03/25/2014	3	1607	03/26/2014 8:07 pm by: Greg8904
	The Great British Coin Hunt	Liberty1966 02/25/2014	15	3978	02/28/2014 09:24 am by: augsburger
	Guess How Much I Paid?	mashisback 02/08/2014	10	1587	02/08/2014 2:32 pm by: molydeii
	Charles II 1676 English Crown	flippy 12/07/2013	12	2189	12/07/2013 8:14 pm by: sel_69l
	Buying A Bundle Of Jewellery With Sovereigns... 1 2 Last	mashisback 11/18/2013	21	3357	11/30/2013 10:56 am by: mashisback
	1877	seeker of truth 11/11/2013	10	1593	11/11/2013 7:15 pm by: NathanASE
	Ever Heard Of This Two Pound Coin ?	DaytR 10/01/2013	9	1610	10/02/2013 3:34 pm by: mariok
	Is This A Genuine 1822 Crown?	mariok 09/28/2013	6	3620	09/29/2013 09:41 am by: mariok
	1902 Coronation Medal	SelectCoinCanada 09/16/2013	4	3240	09/18/2013 10:13 am by: SelectCoinCanada
	1758 George II Shilling	zxcccxz 06/11/2013	11	2440	06/16/2013 2:33 pm by: zxcccxz
	What's The Best, Cheapest Way Of Getting A Gold Guinea?	Demarco Bishopp 05/02/2013	11	2778	05/07/2013 10:25 pm by: satxwd
	Falklands Islands Coins ..	DaytR 04/28/2013	10	1525	05/06/2013 10:37 pm by: satxwd
	Help With Older Type Of Â£2 Coins.	quibono12 05/02/2013	3	1179	05/02/2013 5:01 pm by: quibono12
	Information Needed On A 1918 Kn British Penny.	Joseph7420 04/29/2013	11	3091	04/30/2013 3:10 pm by: rooneydog
	10 Pence Irish 1813 Token Plain Edge	shanew 04/21/2013	5	1253	04/21/2013 11:45 pm by: shanew
	Royal Mint New Issues.	quibono12 04/18/2013	10	1540	04/19/2013 6:08 pm by: andyg
	Help With This Florin ... (Picture Update)	Airw0lf 04/10/2013	9	1210	04/10/2013 8:14 pm by: Airw0lf
	There Are 1797 Cartwheel Coins For Sale Aren't There?	Demarco Bishopp 04/03/2013	6	1414	04/05/2013 06:38 am by: Bacchus2
	1861 One Shilling	Spencer76 04/02/2013	4	1383	04/02/2013 5:47 pm by: numismatic biz
	1818 Shilling Fake ?	rooneydog 03/28/2013	5	2368	03/28/2013 3:46 pm by: Peter THOMAS
	1935 Crown Fakes, How Common?	Wade 03/11/2013	4	1803	03/11/2013 7:48 pm by: alganbagerap
World Coins and Currency Discussion Forums / Ancient, Greek, Roman, and Medieval Coins
	Genuine Swedish/Livonian Schilling Coins (17th Century)?	Accipiter 05/24/2015	3	1893	05/24/2015 7:31 pm by: numismatic biz
	Trip To India	pishpash 09/28/2013	3	990	09/29/2013 2:55 pm by: pishpash
eCommerce and Online Auction Discussion Forums / eCommerce \| eBay, eCrater, Heritage, Paypal, Auction Houses, etc.
	Extreme Royal Mail Customs Fees 1 2 Last	Paul Bulgerin 04/24/2015	17	6781	11/29/2020 5:46 pm by: Pertinax
	55,000 Coins Seller Listed One Coin 4 Times	sweet 06/17/2015	11	2851	06/18/2015 7:43 pm by: numismatic biz
	Seller Won't Take Questions About Items	TheForce 04/25/2015	14	2976	04/26/2015 08:53 am by: jdmern
	Question On Ebay Fees These Days.	edweather 10/01/2014	9	2098	10/03/2014 12:38 am by: edweather
	Customs And Duty (A New Ebay Service?)	austrokiwi 09/29/2013	11	2472	11/07/2013 3:07 pm by: Cassidy77
	Ebay - Weird	Bacchus2 09/15/2013	3	1511	09/16/2013 05:59 am by: numismatic biz

New posts since last logon.
Old Posts. ( 30 replies or more.)
Locked topic.

The First Dollar, your premier source for bullion and rare coins. See our bullion list on the site and the coin inventory on ebay.

Silver Gold Bull US is the United States leading bullion dealer. We deliver gold coins, gold bars, silver coins, silver bars and precious metals to your door. Order today!

View Last 100 New Topics

View Last 100 Active Topics

Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us | Advertise Here | Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum

It took 0.5 seconds to rattle this change.