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1983-P LMC Penny / Struck Through Dropped Filling / Dropped Letter "Y"

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 Posted 10/15/2026  3:36 pm  Show Profile   Check -makecents-'s eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add -makecents- to your friends list
To simplify what I am saying, when you have a heavy clash on the obverse, people think the raised areas of the "jailhouse" clash is from the columns, it is not, they are the bays. So when you have a typical die clash, what is raised on the coin with be incuse from a clash. Hope that helps. What you have is a very nice, strong letter transfer from a clash though, not from a dropped filling.
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 Posted 10/15/2026  3:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dearborn to your friends list
Very nice find, I agree with @makecents here.
The 'Y' looks incuse to me as well as the clash remnants - I determined this by looking at the lighting and shadows.
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 Posted 10/15/2026  4:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add snailking1 to your friends list

You know, I have read the description on error-ref many times, and couldn't get my head around the clash being incuse. Guess I have been looking at clash marks all wrong. I have been interpreting what I see as clash marks, backwards.

Had to take time to really visualize the process, but,
I think it's FINALLY gotten through!

Thank You Everyone!
You just helped me unlearn my incorrect understanding, and replace it with the correct one!

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 Posted 10/15/2026  4:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list

Quote:
To simplify what I am saying, when you have a heavy clash on the obverse,...
Thank you.
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 Posted 10/15/2026  4:23 pm  Show Profile   Check -makecents-'s eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add -makecents- to your friends list
-makecents-
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 Posted 10/15/2026  4:27 pm  Show Profile   Check -makecents-'s eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add -makecents- to your friends list

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I have been interpreting what I see as clash marks, backwards.
In my earlier days of learning errors and varieties I saw it that way too.
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 Posted 10/15/2026  5:45 pm  Show Profile   Check Brandmeister's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Brandmeister to your friends list

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You know, I have read the description on error-ref many times, and couldn't get my head around the clash being incuse. Guess I have been looking at clash marks all wrong. I have been interpreting what I see as clash marks, backwards.

Think of a die clash in two parts. The die clash itself strikes a raised, positive coin onto the opposing negative die. When that modified negative die strikes a coin, it makes a positive coin, but the additional positive features on the die strike negative features onto the coin.

I think of a die clash as holding the coin up to a mirror. Then everything you see that is raised in the mirror sucks down on the front coin face, from the center outwards, and from the fields first.
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 Posted 10/15/2026  10:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add snailking1 to your friends list

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Think of a die clash in two parts.

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 Posted Yesterday   01:05 am  Show Profile   Check -makecents-'s eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add -makecents- to your friends list

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Think of a die clash in two parts. The die clash itself strikes a raised, positive coin onto the opposing negative die. When that modified negative die strikes a coin, it makes a positive coin, but the additional positive features on the die strike negative features onto the coin.

I think of a die clash as holding the coin up to a mirror. Then everything you see that is raised in the mirror sucks down on the front coin face, from the center outwards, and from the fields first.
I am not sure what you are talking about. A die clash is exactly that, clashing of two dies, with no coin/planchet involved. The hammer die and anvil die hit each other with NO coin involved, that is how a clash is made, then the clashed dies, when they have a coin/planchet introduced, creates a coin with clashing on it.
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 Posted Yesterday   01:09 am  Show Profile   Check -makecents-'s eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add -makecents- to your friends list
I will try to draw some rudimentary diagrams tomorrow to try and simplify the process of how a clash is created.
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 Posted Yesterday   04:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add snailking1 to your friends list

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I will try to draw some rudimentary diagrams tomorrow to try and simplify the process of how a clash is created

I imagine others also look at a clash the way I had been, but I've got it in my head now! Thanks.
(The coin thing confused me at first, but after some sleep and rereading Brandmeister's explanation, I believe that I understand what he was saying: The clash creates a minted coin's feature [raised] on the opposing die, which in turn, creates the negative [incuse] feature on future minted coins.)
Bonus for me: By verbalizing Brandmeister's explanation (I really did that for my own benefit), it also popped into my brain how a counter clash is created.
Edited by snailking1
Yesterday 04:44 am
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 Posted Yesterday   07:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nickelsearcher to your friends list
Good discussions all around.
Take a look at my other hobby ... http://www.jk-dk.art
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 Posted Yesterday   07:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add snailking1 to your friends list

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Good discussions all around.

Absolutely!
Sometimes being wrong can be very beneficial!
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 Posted Yesterday   08:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petespockets55 to your friends list
Been out of the loop lately and just seeing this one.
Glad Makescents clarified this for folks.

I was going to add that I purchased 30 OBW rolls (1983P) this year & found about two rolls of the clashed "Y" on the reverse so far. The "Y" was in bays 1, 2, & 3, which, until these rolls, had been hard for me to find. The "Y" was found most often in Bay 3, which would be typical. I would consider the clashed "Y" in bay 1 to be an "Atypical" clash, but maddieclashes says that designation is subjective, depending on their attributor.
Words of encouragement are one of the major food groups.
We need to consume them regularly to thrive and grow.
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 Posted Yesterday   09:28 am  Show Profile   Check Brandmeister's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Brandmeister to your friends list

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The clash creates a minted coin's feature [raised] on the opposing die, which in turn, creates the negative [incuse] feature on future minted coins.

Yes. What you really see in the background of the struck coin is a partial reconstruction of the opposing die (not the opposing coin face).

It's an image seen through a mirror—but American coins make it loopy because we mint coins to be flipped top to bottom, so the dies are also 180 degrees rotated to each other when they clash.
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