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Possible 1856 Flying Eagle Cent? Update: (5/11/22) PCGS Results Are In!

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 Posted 04/01/2022  8:39 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add WheatBack to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
This came into the local shop in a rather nice coin collection. Being that this coin is raw, it was agreed upon to send it off before making an offer to the owner. Just figured I'd also post it here to see what folks think. To me, it looks good. I've been tasked with sending it off to PCGS and I will mail it Monday.



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68931 Posts
 Posted 04/01/2022  9:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
C'mon, Wheat. One-look fake. The 6 is way too large, among many other discrepancies. Waste of money to submit this.
Edited by Coinfrog
04/01/2022 9:13 pm
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 Posted 04/01/2022  9:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MisterT to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This may have a shot at genuine but I really can't comment. Out of my wheelhouse, but I had to subscribe to this thread to see what the experts have to say.
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 Posted 04/01/2022  9:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add WheatBack to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I used this as comparison..

http://goccf.com/t/282491
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 Posted 04/01/2022  9:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MisterT to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Frog, Do you think this is a modern Chinese forgery? The "E"'s don't look right to me. Hard to tell if the 5 is centered over the ball. I guess we really need a scope pic of the date here. They say that genuine examples rarely grade lower than VF and this certainly is better than that. I tried to find the diagnostics for this but could not find it. Can someone post a genuine next to this pic for comparison?
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 Posted 04/01/2022  10:23 pm  Show Profile   Check jacrispies's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add jacrispies to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I say genuine. Not sure what the others are seeing. It looks encapulated inside the 2x2.
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 Posted 04/01/2022  10:38 pm  Show Profile   Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Rick Snow has several genuine examples available for sale now. I would send him your images. He is the preeminent expert in the field. Here's his website with one currently for sale: https://www.indiancent.com/1856-1c-...8423834.html
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87 Posts
 Posted 04/02/2022  12:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BCTokens to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
For comparison's sake:

Genuine date (source PCGS coinfacts website):




and the O/P's example:



I'll let better eyes than mine compare them.

Jan
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 Posted 04/02/2022  01:19 am  Show Profile   Check westcoin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
For me the reverse has some things I don't like about it, it's a pretty darn good counterfeit if it is one, What is the weight? It has a look like a spark erosion coin possibly. The cracks in the reverse planchet bother me somewhat, as do the denticles.

I'm 66% fake and 33% real at the moment (not having it in hand to examine). The photos should be full coin flat on the camera sensor plane, with no tilt and not in a holder to better compare it to others, tilting the coin can distort things, and shooting through a holder or plastic can hide subtle surface items.

Is there any rotation of the obverse vs reverse? Much sharper images without the plastic in the way are needed to see subtle die lines and flow characteristics of the 1856 Flying Eagle. NGC won't grade one as a Mint State, though I believe there are non Proof examples, those being the Snow 3, 5, 6, 7 and 8. The Snow 6, 7 & 8 are extremely rare and possibly unknown, more research is still needed.

Going to PCGS is the way to go on these coins IMO, but I'm not all that optimistic on this piece as it is currently, that may change if I had better images.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1982, Early American Coppers Member (EAC) #6202, Colonial Coin Collectors Club (C4), Conder Token Collector Club (CTCC), & Numismatic Bibliomania Society (NBS) Member, 2 variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
Edited by westcoin
04/02/2022 01:19 am
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 Posted 04/02/2022  01:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MisterT to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The coin is probably going to have to be removed from the 2x2 for submission and put into a flip. Why not remove it from the 2x2, measure the diameter and thickness with calipers or micrometer, get an accurate weight and if possible have a shop XRF it for composition. That should tell you if it is worth sending for authentication. Best of luck!
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 Posted 04/02/2022  06:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add smat45 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Denticle pattern on the reverse looks odd to me from K2-9?
smat
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 Posted 04/02/2022  08:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add WheatBack to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the good discussion. This coin shop is run by old schoolers and they definitely don't have the means to do a bunch of tests. The person selling is also fine with sending it off just to get peace of mind one way or another. I'm only doing what the coin shop wants and that is to send it off to PCGS. I'll try to get some better shots before I pack it up.
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 Posted 04/02/2022  12:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add RedRaider to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This appears to be real to me or a very good fake.

It is a proof version that has seen circulation, the die chip by the N in CENT is there. The lettering on the obverse is also correct.
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 Posted 04/02/2022  3:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MisterT to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Please keep us updated with the status of this coin regardless if it grades genuine or not. This may be a valuable learning experience for us all.
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 Posted 04/02/2022  5:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add WheatBack to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is about as best as I can get with what I have.








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 Posted 04/02/2022  5:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MisterT to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If this is a fake, it is a very good one because the middle serifs of the E in "states" and The F in "of" match genuine diagnostics. The large letters variety and center of the M in "america" match the genuine diagnostics. The 5 of the date appears to have the correct shape to the curve inside the ball but hard to say if the vertical part is exactly centered bisecting the ball end. The broken leaf on the reverse isn't present like you would expect on a known counterfeit. I think this has a chance! Still you should at least weigh and measure it before submission even if you can't have it XRF for composition.
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