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Do You See What I See On This Large Cent?

 
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Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 01/27/2023  5:37 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add dsking to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I'll see if you all agree with my thoughts. Again, not a great pic but any guesses on potential grade. It's certainly not a high priced coin by any means though.

Thanks

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 Posted 01/27/2023  5:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add -makecents- to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Can't tell from the pics, they pixelate when I try to enlarge. There is a misaligned die. Do you have an overdate or something else we can't see?
-makecents-
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 Posted 01/27/2023  6:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chase007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
need better pics.
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Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 01/27/2023  6:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dsking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have a microscope on order. I sure hope it gets here soon. The white background coins are much older photos.

I was looking for the misalignment!

Wrong area to post? Oops..."Classic". My bad
Edited by dsking
01/27/2023 6:09 pm
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 Posted 01/27/2023  6:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add -makecents- to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I messed with these for awhile, a cool coin and era. I might go back.

And yes, as I stated earlier, misaligned die. Nice looking coin.
-makecents-
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 Posted 01/27/2023  7:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Larger pics for grade, please.
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 Posted 01/27/2023  9:04 pm  Show Profile   Check CarrsCoins's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add CarrsCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
misaligned dies braided cents are a subject dear to my heart. it was my fathers collecting passion. they show up pretty consistently in this era. 1853 is the most frequent (i inherited more than 200 MAD 1853s from my dad). they are known across a every die pair for 1853 so it seems the issue was significant. 1852, while less common, appears to experience the same issues.

here are some bullet point notes from a manuscript my father was working on before he passed. forgive the rough nature. its not finished and I'm not ready to start finishing it today.

----------------------------------

Chapter 3
What Happened at the Philadelphia Mint in 1853?

Two terms, as stated by Q. David Bowers, define operations at the Philadelphia Mint in 1853, "hasty preparation and sloppy strikes."

Many coiners were switched to silver coin production (these were legal tender, not like large cents, which were not made legal tender until 1964.
Q. David Bowers also states that many 1853 Liberty Seated quarters were struck in haste, with a poor quality of striking as a result.
"Struck in haste" is a good clue for us to follow when looking at what happened at the Mint in 1853.
Q. David Bowers also states that many 1853 Liberty Seated quarters were struck in haste, with a poor quality of striking as a result.
"Struck in haste" is a good clue for us to follow when looking at what happened at the Mint in 1853.
Both metals were impacted by world events in the mid nineteenth century.
In 1848, gold was discovered in California.
In 1850, gold was discovered in Australia.
In 1852, gold was discovered in New Zealand.
In the early 1850s, gold was discovered in Siberia.
The sudden appearance of all this gold sent the monetary system of the United States into turmoil. The value of gold went down and the value of silver went up.
By 1851, the value of silver in our coins was worth more than face value.
Bankers and brokers valued $100 face value of silver coins at $103.40.
This was a big problem for our economy. Almost all silver coins were hoarded by early 1852.
Commerce slowed down.
How could you pay for anything?
Paper money was unpopular.
Paper was often worthless or discounted.
Barter was too cumbersome.
What could be used to keep commerce moving?
Congress was forced to act. The Mint Act of February 21, 1853 reduced the silver content of all coins except the dollar, which was used primarily in foreign trade and was traded at intrinsic value.
All minor silver coins were debased (except the trime, which was already debased) by this Act and had less silver than their value.
This led to a massive re-coinage of silver coins.
By April 1853, silver coins of the new standard were beginning to appear in circulation.
This year had a huge increase in the mintage of subsidiary silver coins.
Silver mintages ( half dime to Half Dollar) at the Philadelphia Mint
1851 - 24,984,136 coins
1852 - 32,611,849 coins
1853 - 69,819,805 coins
1854 - 33,097,716 coins
1855 - 14,937,659 coins
The April 1853 issue of The Banker' Magazine stated: "The Mint will be abundantly supplied with silver for the creation of small coins complimented by the late act of Congress. The Western banks have cut back their silver. A shipment of $400,000 was made by the several Louisville banks last week to the Philadelphia Mint. There are large sums in dollars and half dollars, held by the banks of Indiana, Tennessee and other states, which will now be brought forward for recoinage."
After February 15, 1853, the New Orleans Mint recalled the older coinage. In the fall of 1853, the New Orleans Mint sent more than $1,000,000 face value in minor silver coins to the Mint in Philadelphia for recoinage.
The Mint needed more machinery.
The Mint had to hire more employees.
Many of these new employees needed to be trained and, even trained, were less efficient.
To top it all off, experienced employees were assigned to the striking of silver. Newer and less experienced employees struck coppers.
Obviously, precedence was given to striking silver. The mint, in effect, had to replace all those silver coins that had been hoarded, exported, or melted.
Coins were struck "in haste" in every denomination.
To discover why 1853 quarters (and other 1853s), were struck in haste, we need to look beyond the world of our treasured large cents.
By 1850, the monetary systems in most nations were based on either silver or gold, but not both.
The United States was an exception, as our money was valued in both, at a 16:1 ratio (One ounce of gold had the same value as 16 ounces of silver).
I collect low grade large cents. I currently have >230 Sheldon varieties and >235 middle date Newcomb varieties.
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 Posted 01/27/2023  9:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wideglide to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for that! Really interesting and informative.
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 Posted 01/27/2023  9:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add silviosi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
"Struck in haste" is a good clue for us to follow when looking at what happened at the Mint in 1853.


The 1853 FY Report say that they was press for a fast production to accomplish the market need. Could be the reason for low majority quality.
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 Posted 01/28/2023  03:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
dsking,
Please make sure to use a memory card in your new scope.
John1
( I'm no pro, it's just my humble opinion )
Searched 6.5 +/- Million Cents Since 1971
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 Posted 01/28/2023  07:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@CarrsCoins .... Thanks for the informative read!

Considering the wide range of coining activity at the Philly Mint in the early 1850's, from the intro of trimes to the striking of coins with arrows and rays, those poor coiners must've been working their heads & tails off!
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 Posted 01/28/2023  09:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dsking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
CarrsCoins: That was quite the detailed info that your Father kept. Great read! Thank you!


Quote:
Please make sure to use a memory card in your new scope.


John1: Yes it has a Memory Card! I can't wait. It should arrive tomorrow - then the learning begins.
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 Posted 01/28/2023  11:31 am  Show Profile   Check CarrsCoins's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add CarrsCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
sure thing. I'm happy to share. its a topic that I dont get to talk about very often. he was writing a book on the subject. its unfinished. I plan to complete it and publish it at some time. I lack the knowledge to do it justice at this time and have other projects I am working on. I'm reading my way through it and learning about my publication options. ill probably end up starting a publication company focused on extremely esoteric subjects in numismatics that demand small print runs.

in the book he had estimated that ~1,000 MAD 1853s exist. MAD 1852 is quite a bit less common so probably only several hundred examples are on the planet today.

this is one of my first practical examples of supply and demand. dad owned about 20% of the population. when he started buying them they could be purchased for less than regular coin money. most collectors prefer a correctly aligned coin. towards the end he was paying 2-3X retail for them. dealers realized that they sold well. they couldnt keep them in stock so they raised the prices. its turns out that my pops represented all of the demand. when he passed there wasnt anybody to buy them anymore. a lot of people got left thinking they had premium coins when in fact they had a coin that was mostly worth base coin money to the rest of the hobby.
I collect low grade large cents. I currently have >230 Sheldon varieties and >235 middle date Newcomb varieties.
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 Posted 01/28/2023  1:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dsking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I bet your Dad was a wonderful, intelligent man! Your writing about him shows great pride in him. Your stories are lovely and heartwarming. Do try to keep posting his comments...I'm thoroughly enjoying them. Good luck with your publishing! You can do this!
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752 Posts
 Posted 01/28/2023  9:26 pm  Show Profile   Check CarrsCoins's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add CarrsCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
thanks. dad was my buddy. especially when it came to coins. thanks for sharing yours. these always make me smile.
I collect low grade large cents. I currently have >230 Sheldon varieties and >235 middle date Newcomb varieties.
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