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 Replies: 3 / Views: 129 |
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New Member
United States
17 Posts |
Coin collecting is an interesting hobby. Even though it's not for me, it's interesting to learn about how things work, especially the interpersonal and logistical aspects. It seems that the rest of the world can learn some valuable things from the coin collecting community.
I understand that there are 69 different grades for the condition of a coin. While the difference between one grade and the next one above and below it don't affect the value very much for most of the grades, it's different at the high end of the scale (mid-60s and higher).
How do you determine the condition of a coin? At the upper end of the scale (where minor differences make a HUGE difference in value), grading the coin is most difficult. It seems to me that you need a microscope to verify a claim of MS69.
How do you go about buying or selling a coin in those upper grades? Dealing with flawed and worn-out coins is relatively easy and straightforward for both the buyer and seller. There's no need to argue about the exact condition number, because that does not make a significant difference in value.
But for the upper grades, extra close scrutiny is necessary, and I can see the limitations of a coin show for this. The difference between MS68 and MS69 is so tiny that it's difficult to discern, but an MS69 coin can be worth at least 10 times as much as a similar MS68 coin. The coin dealers are busy dealing with attendees interested in buying and selling coins. The time pressure and the distraction from attendees running around can get in the way.
Is this where visiting the dealers at their physical stores during their normal business hours comes in? Given my experiences selling gold coins to local dealers in their own physical stores, I've realized that it's a much better environment for close scrutiny. It's so much quieter, and the dealer and customer can take all the time they need to discuss and examine everything.
I'm guessing that owning coins in those upper condition grades is for experienced coin collectors and not newbies, who are definitely not positioned to distinguish between MS68 and MS69 and have not yet had a chance to establish rapport with anyone. I figure that the experienced people have built rapport with dealers and fellow collectors during the course of their coin collecting adventures. Just as the best deals at coin shows happen among the dealers before the public is allowed to enter, an individual collector who has built rapport with a particular dealer can get better deals than someone who hasn't.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7362 Posts |
The grades range from 1 to 70. In the lower grades it's fairly easy to tell for example an XF45 to AU 55 but as grading is subjective I have seen coins graded AU58, then resubmitted and getting a grade of MS64.
In the higher grades between MS60 and MS64 you should be able to see less distracting marks. At MS65-66 you should see a mostly clean coin with no distracting marks. 67 is the transition, basically a well struck coin with lots of visual appeal. MS68 is generally the highest you can get for most classic coins, excellent visual appeal and very very clean (mostly mark free), some original toning marks the coin as original. It's very rare to see a classic coin be 69. In modern proof coinage 69/70 are essentially what you you get. The coins are minted, moved to a towel , reviewed and packaged. There is very little or no hitting of coins.
So to answer your question, in regular production, it gets hard to get the higher grades as they aren't cared for as well as proof coins and therefore having a higher grade becomes rare and the coin with the highest grade becomes more valuable. The difference between ms 65 and 67 are noticeable , 68 is usually the pinnacle of a classic coin and mostly modern coinage gets to the lofty 69/70 grade.
Edited by hfjacinto
Yesterday 08:03 am
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
6717 Posts |
The value difference comes from having the coins slabbed in that grade. MS67 vs MS68 is enormously subjective, you are basically arguing over a few tiny blemishes and whether they are too big or placed in an acceptable area. Also about whether strike is strong enough, and the subjective eye appeal of toning. The grading companies are notoriously inconsistent on this line—indeed, the ANA guidelines themselves are short and vague. |
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Moderator
 Australia
16928 Posts |
These days, anyone who pays those top-tier dollars for raw coins, on the assumption that they actually are anything above MS-65, would be a small, foolish minority. Most folks just buy and sell coins that have already been slabbed, and "trust the slabbing companies" that they got the grade right, and pay accordingly, often with little more than a cursory glance at the coin itself. This "commoditization" of coins via the slabbing companies has it's upsides (more confidence for buyers, reducing the "how to grade coins" learning curve, and no longer haggling about a coin's actual grade) and downsides (the crackout game, "condition rarity", and that we now have people who own portfolios of super-expensive coins but who couldn't really tell you why they're super-expensive).
A lot of that drive towards top dollars for top-graded coins comes from investors, as all the "coin investment advice" for the last 50 years has been "only buy top graded coins". The TPGs also help in providing both physical protection for the coins and some neutral external assurance of their quality, thus encouraging investor participation even by people with zero coin knowledge.
Some of the drive also comes from "registry sets" - a phenomenon arising from the TPGs themselves and are basically a public list of everything you've got that is graded. People with "the best sets" in the various categories get bragging rights, and enough of those people are prepared to pay top dollar to obtain those bragging rights to bump up the demand, and thus the price.
In terms of the OP question "can you tell the difference between MS68 and MS69", frankly, I can't. But then, I'm not really interested in those top-grade coins, no matter what the "future potential value" might be. I'm certainly not going to choose to pay extra money for features that I can't see so I'm not really going to appreciate. My collecting interest is also towards "coins that were actually used as money", which tends to preclude those top-grade coins. I'd rather not pay top dollar for a coin so fragile I'd be afraid to actually touch it and would be forced to keep it in its plastic tomb lest it "lose it's value". I'm happy to let the majority of collectors who truly appreciate such coins do all the competing to own them.
Is "buy lower-graded coins" good investment advice? No, it's terrible investment advice. But that's why I'm a collector, not an investor.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Posted Yesterday 09:21 am
