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Pillar of the Community
 United States
7940 Posts |
Quote:
The jewellers @tdziemia :
They just have test sets (liquids, you rubble some from the piece and put a liquid over it) for their jewellery: fixed to 925/1000, 750/1000, etc. I don't think they are that exact, I believe they just look at the stamp mark and have it confirmed by these tests. (the coins haven't any)
A larger jeweller will have XRF (x-ray fluorescence) which is a non-destructive test. Maybe where you are this technique is not readily available. It sounds like you know what you have, so I'm not sure testing is needed. |
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New Member
 Reunion
13 Posts |
I found another pretty good overview of the coins in Goa: Dinheitro Luso-Indiano, from 1975: https://archive.org/details/dli.ern.../n1/mode/2upUnfortunately very poorly illustrated. I can hardly recognize or determine anything about it. The quality is too bad. I have the impression that these books do not depict all types of coins either. Has the knowledge about this been lost or have the coins been melted down over the centuries? (which would make sense to me, the Indian ones, they really weren't high quality coins). In any case, I have a few individual coins that are not known at all or are not listed as known from these books. Are all these books simply a relic from the 1970s, or were there accurate registers from Goa? Or were those books written after the guys who made it to Portugal, and what was not melted down? I'm still suspicious of the whole thing @tdziemia: "A larger jeweller will have XRF (x-ray fluorescence)" Oh no, you don't seem to know Madagascar: there is only one "jeweller" with this word: the remaining are just cabanes & merchants of anything. Mostly some chains, that sell "everydays burgers wedding rings". Yes I believe, there is an XRF searching thing, but only one: in the central bank that robs the other merchants. I'm pretty sure, nobody has one of this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:...toXRFPic.jpg |
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New Member
Reunion
13 Posts |
PS: I got hot about it.
Sometimes, while travelling through the island, I was offered some single coins, mostly silver, somewhere in bars, in the evening that I didn't buy, as I was not interested in them (by flying salesman)
But now I will ask much better questions and will now if they are worsewhile or not.
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New Member
Reunion
13 Posts |
PS: I might do another travel to Madagascar during this year, to search for more coins & informations: in museums, and the like are sometimes some on display, but mostly single coins.
Also, I know some guys that collect everything of "ancient" they might have some in their possession.
Example: a hotely that I know, the owner seems to buy everything from ancient forloader guns, to ancient sakay (spears), he might have some more coins in his reserves (or anywhere).
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New Member
Reunion
13 Posts |
ah:PS: I had a single Private Message because of this post. Please understand, that I will contact you later.
I still want to figure out, how much they are worth and I do not want to have them imaged on the internet for the moment.
Yes, you have a priority, you are the first (and only) to purpose to buy the bullion.
I try to be fair, also, I 'll leave a margin to a trader, but I also want to have my fair part. A little patience, please.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
6554 Posts |
Hate to say it  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7940 Posts |
Quote:
@tdziemia: "A larger jeweller will have XRF (x-ray fluorescence)"
Oh no, you don't seem to know Madagascar: there is only one "jeweller" with this word: the remaining are just cabanes & merchants of anything. No, I don't but I had my guess, and I did not want to be insulting. Also, if you have a history of finds, I guessed you might have experience and knowledge of where the nearest source of non-destructive testing is. Quote:
Yes, you have a priority, you are the first (and only) to purpose to buy the bullion. I hope they have very "deep pockets." Here are recent auction sales I could find for Joao V coins, both Goa and Sao Tome mints (as you have noted, Goa is rather rare): Joao V 1 Xerafim, Goa. Opening bid 800 eu, did not sell: https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=13640784Joao V 1 Xerafim, Sao Tome, sold for 1200 euro: https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=11132496 Joao V 1 Xerafim, Sao Tome, opening bid 750 euro, did not sell: https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=11120632Joao V 5 Xerafins, Sao Tome, sold for 2750 euro: https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=9953500Joao V 5 Xerafins, Sao Tome, sold for 1500 euro: https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=9953501Joao V 5 Xerafins, Sao Tome, sold for 2500 euro: https://www.numisbids.com/sale/5976/lot/616Joao V 5 Xerafins, Sao Tome, sold for 1800 euro: https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=7613089Joao V 10 Serafins, Sao Tome, sold for 2500 euro: https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=6083423There were some earlier sales of Goa Joao V gold on acsearch, but I have not been able to find sale prices: Joao V 5 Serafins, Goa: https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=3167235Joao V 10 Serafins, Goa: https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=3167236 Edited by tdziemia
04/26/2026 8:16 pm
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New Member
Reunion
13 Posts |
@tdziemia - thank you very much ! I got inscribed at that side: but still the prices can only be seen by "paying customers": ok, another time, I already have an idea now. === I found the books I was looking for !, as pdf: https://www.numismatique-tours.fr/p...de-portugal/Descrição geral e histórica das moedas cunhadas em nome dos reis, regentes e governadores de Portugal € 132.00 At least the first volume is available as pdf. (I haven't yet searched for Vol 2 & 3): https://dn790006.ca.archive.org/0/i...araguoft.pdfSeems to be a very old language (it's Portuguese) With excellent drawings of the coins, the author even treats fake coins (yes there were some who brought barrels of copper coins from.... England.... and they are also illustrated: that's already enough for me to start to work with. I'll be even more happy if I find vol.2 & 3, as the vol. 1 ends shortly before (I thing with King Sebastiao ) Some passages are very difficult to read; for instance the weight, and purity: he discribes them in graos (ancient Portuguese measurement), etc. Luckily they are still used in Brazil there's even a calculator: graos em gramas: https://www.metric-conversions.org/...m-gramas.htmAnother good German book I have found, editioned by the Deutsche Bundesbank: Neuzeitliche Goldmünzenhttps://www.bundesbank.de/resource/...zen-data.pdf(= Gold coins of modern times, they seem to start at around 15.hundred. No Portuguese Indian coins, but continental Europe & Brazil. They have easier calculation methods for the degree of purity, etc (editioned 1985, and excellent images) : for those that are interested in Gold coins in general, it's certainly a big plus. ==== Some images from the pdf of the portuguese book:    -(the third images show some fakes of portuguese coins) |
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New Member
Reunion
13 Posts |
The there is still another German book: https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt...951263&seq=5from 1890: Portuguiesische Münzen, but with good images (photographs !!) Partly it's avalaible on the net thry hathitrust.org (google takes out a page out off 2, damn) But from what I can see from the plates: they are ok also. So maybe I'll find that book, if I still need it, later... somehow ! |
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New Member
Reunion
13 Posts |
PS: I am sorry if I hurt somebody, when I thought that the silver coins are scrap !
I missed the prices rises: wow, an ounce is now at 75$ already.....
then money come by also for silver coins.
I just remembered in the 70th the central banks were withdrawing all their silver coins: because silver got to expensive for them: Sfr 5 (Swiss francs) or 5 French Francs was the value of their coins then.
My god, quite an increase.
Sorry, for that: I 'm more looking for cash :) But at that price, yes, it seems interesting also.
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New Member
Reunion
13 Posts |
And I also found the pdf of the Volume 3 of: === Descrição geral e histórica das moedas cunhadas em nome dos reis, regentes e governadores de Portugal It is here for download: https://dn790006.ca.archive.org/0/i...araguoft.pdfAnd a preview page, of the Joao V plate:  That plate is less good visible, I believe it's because they do not have good coins from Goa in Portugal? I don't know, but for me it's good enough to work on. Thanks a lot folks, |
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Pillar of the Community
Portugal
655 Posts |
Coins from portuguese india are very much appreciated in Portugal even if only by a few collectors. Do not melt the silver. The logical place to sell them would be Portugal. There are still books about these coins that are nowhere online.
Regarding legality. Shipwrecks of state navy ships are illegal to salvage in most countries, depending on which conventions they acceded. They remain the property of the flag state. If it still exists. But everyone seems to ignore that. And trade ships are not similarly covered. Those coins were used for trade all around the indian ocean for some 200 years. A hoard found inland may have been hidden by pirates, businessmen, whomever in the past. I can not believe anyone would raise questions about the provenance of the coins.
Regarding history. There were several minis operating in portuguese india. Besides Goa there were also Malaca, Damão, and temporarily some others. Sometimes coins were struck in other mints for use in India or in west Africa. Sometimes it is not clear where a certain type of coin was struck. There are still arguments over it.
The value of most coins from portuguese India will always be several times their metal value. VAT or export duties are small compared to potential gains from selling the coins for collectors.
If you are sitting on such a large hoard go to Lisbon with samples and shop them around. There are plenty of traders that would be eager to buy.
Edited by jecz79
04/29/2026 12:42 pm
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New Member
Reunion
13 Posts |
No, I think I have to search for some institutional buyers. a bank, a sheik, or somebody interested in coins, with a large background. The auction sites (or the like) they only sell some single pieces every 5-50 years. === Associação Numismatica de Portugal ( https://anumismatica.pt/ ) has every few months an auction: but gold coins are quite rare, certainly most of their members have already one, or they cannot efford it. Not much sense, to make an auction, if there is only a single buyer. === I'm afraid I've found a fortune, but it will take me a even larger fortune to place them in the market + 50 years. === @tdzemia: you wrote: Quote:
"Of course we are always interested to see photos so we can better help." === I did take home only few specimens (in my purse): I didn't want to risk to have them confiscated at the customs. I'm afraid also to get grilled, if they are posted on the internet: who will buy them, later on, if they know, many more will follow, slowly and from the same source? *** Well, I would obtain hardly more than the metal price (gold, or silver price), if you'll know, there will be some 50 or 100 pcs. more of the same type later on, coming thru other auction sites. Therefore: sorry for the moment: no images. Please have some patience, at a later moment I will post pictures of course.... === Well, I think I will place for the moment just 1 coin in Portugal, 1 in USA, 1 in France... just to check the price they will give. I think that's enough for me for a year.... so, if I cannot get "rid off them" over a short period: I'll do it every year. + some 10-20 (or 50) of the silver coins ? I don't need all that money.... shall my heritiers break their mind about it, I think they'll have no problem. But would be nice to cash everything... so I could still make a few years the party..... well, I'll take it as it goes.... |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7940 Posts |
Good luck.
We will be interested in how the sales go.
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Pillar of the Community
Portugal
655 Posts |
The ANP would not be a good option to place coins. It only provides a place for auctions, the people selling the coins in those auctions are mostly coin dealers. Some collectors also. Small scale.
There should be several dozen collects (me included) interested in that type of coins. But to sell in quantity you will want a dealer.
That as why I suggested you should check around in Lisbon. Talk to the dealers in person. I am not going to write names here in public but there is at least one dealer in Lisbon who can easily buy hundreds of expensive pieces in one go to sell over time. This one I am thinking of also happens to be the most honest one in evaluating coins.
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Posted 04/25/2026 06:15 am
