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What Happens To Gold And Silver Next? Look Out Below?

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Pillar of the Community
United States
1590 Posts
 Posted 01/31/2014  9:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jmkendall to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Lol@traevin....let me know if he needs help!
Pillar of the Community
United States
3789 Posts
 Posted 02/02/2014  2:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Let me first apologize here guys, been very busy here and haven't had time to update or give daily updates but I Am working right now on getting an update here in a few today.

Let me just say this- we have had some extremely boring chop with gold and yet we have silver working on dipping lower and bouncing within ranges. Silver clearly the weakest here.

more in a bit, thank you for your patience, I really love updating this thread but we have had some pretty interesting volatile market action as of late as it seems the market is pricing in and going through a correction.

will have an update in a little bit tho to kick off the week and month.
Pillar of the Community
United States
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 Posted 02/02/2014  3:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ok lets dig into this-

Depending on your time frame with gold and silver, one could say this is a great time to buy and go long, for the long haul while others that trade this have had a field day with the intra-day volatility.

One thing is clear- gold and silver are still in long term downtrends. Nothing, at all, for weeks nor months, changed. We can even see that in the past couple weeks, silver is again threatening to break down. Gold, while it has had some rips to the upside, continues to face a ton of overhead supply in terms of price.

The other factor creeping into the market now is how volatile it has become, the SPX (also known as the S and P) has really been all over the place, rudderless as some say. This has given a bit a "boost" to gold as it sometimes bounces higher on these days where the market dips. But even then, gold has not rocketed higher or made any advance.

just a quick glance at price action and everyone can easily see silver is worse off and weaker. Gold looks "better" but there is a lot of price action it must contend with to get and stay higher.

Another point I want to highlight is this- if we are going to see these metals snap this downtrend, and they could, they can,... we have to see them break out of these ranges and then hold above them and continue to move higher. We cant have this price action where they cant hold their advances.

Remember then, that TIME is a major element here. No one has a crystal, charts only tell us the past but not the future. However, using the element of time and observing price, we can see how gold and silver deal with these levels. Knocking out levels, one by one, on the way up, or not holding levels and reverting lower, will give us major clues.

ok lets get into silver first and we'll do that by using our proxy, SLV.




What-Happens-To-Gold-And-Silver-Next?-Look-Out-Below?

What-Happens-To-Gold-And-Silver-Next?-Look-Out-Below?


Ok the first chart of SLV, just want to illustrate the point that we are still in a downtrend. Nothing in that price action is saying prices are rising. You can also see that silver, to go higher, MUST go through those price levels. Price has memory and therefore as silver moves higher it will run into selling that could/can stop it dead in its tracks. ALL assets, whether they are a commodity, stock, bond, currency deal with such issues. It will take a ton of heavy volume, repeated buying to get silver back to even yearly highs.

Ok, the second chart shows us how weak silver is. First we can see in the past few weeks its stuck in this range. Several times it makes the lower end, bounces, hits the top of the range, and goes lower.

It has bounced each time. Will a 4th time be different? If it bounces, how high will the next bounce be? All these questions will be answered by being patient and watching. If tho the bounces become shorter and it proceeds to hit the lower range, the higher chance that it goes below it and comes closer at that point to its yearly lows.

Again, lets wait and watch, we will get our clues.



What-Happens-To-Gold-And-Silver-Next?-Look-Out-Below?

What-Happens-To-Gold-And-Silver-Next?-Look-Out-Below?

Ok so now we turn to gold with our proxy, GLD.

First chart up and same thing as in silver, Longer term time frame, we can see we are still in a downtrend. Nothing has changed.

Looking closer however we see a few things. First let me make mention how there arent many repeated attempts at the lower end of the range here. You can see since it made that low on 12/31 that with each successive bounce, gold has staged higher highs, for three times, before going lower last week. Point I want to make here is you can see how in a shorter time frame that higher highs (terms of price) leave a footprint of higher prices, and these you spot by looking and observing the daily pricemovements, which all add up.

The other point is about price has memory. Yes, this works on the way up, as buyers will step in to buy, and on the way down, as buyers step in and sell. In the case of the green arrows, this is an area where in the past buyers were sellers of gold, therefore this area is now resistance to the upside.

Can we break this area? we most certainly can if there are enough buyers, that would lead to this area being challenged and,,, as you have seen, the more an area is probed, in either direction, the more chances, the higher odds of that range being broken. So keep an eye on this area as well.

So gold looks constructive here in terms of its short term price action. Now we need to see if it continues on with this same pattern or does it roll over and give up?

So we have a lot to look at going forward. Does silver hold up here? Does it challenge the yearly lows again? Is gold going to keep pushing higher from here or roll over.

Does all this mean that prices are finally going down? Downtrend done and over with? Theres many possiblities. I would rather wait and see the longer term downtrend be snapped before saying that gold and silver are coming back.

The other thing I want to point out is that it is entirely within the realm of possibility to see a countertrend move within the overall downtrend. That would not be surprising at all. What you need to keep in mind however is that gold and silver have a TON of supply overhead, I have repeated that many many many times because I dont want anyone getting their hopes up, and I dont mean that to put anyone down. Just be aware that it wont be a easy process.

I have seen counter trend moves rip everyones face off, market gets excited, everyone thinks it looks good, and then poof, the rug gets pulled. The other issue worth looking at is,,, whos leading who... is silver going to lead gold lower or is gold going to lead silver higher? I have no idea nor opinion, the market will tell us in due time.

However, by paying close attention to price, we will be able to spot this move higher and we will get plenty of clues whether this move sticks or not.

So there you have it:

1- Gold looks better by silver on a shorter time frame.
2- Both are still in long term downtrends.
3- Silver looks weakest here.

Continue to be patient, allow the element of time to offer clues and always remember that price is king, it doesn't lie and is what will tell us whos doing what.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3789 Posts
 Posted 02/03/2014  12:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So, from the update of yesterday-

silver managed to bounce off that line on the lower range. We have gold also pushing here, making a higher high and higher low thus far today. Depending on what happens tomorrow, gold will could challenge the upper range again.

Pillar of the Community
United States
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 Posted 02/04/2014  12:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
On Sunday we discussed whether gold and silver would move away or through some respective areas- lets take a quick and heres what I see in our proxies-

GLD- after a bounce higher on monday, its chosen to move away from that upper range

SLV- it bounced on its lower end, however, we can see the bounce was a lot shorter here.

SO, I see the bounces higher are much lower than the previous ones, keep an eye on this, it could be telling us these start to work on yet lower ranges in the coming days.
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Fixguy's Avatar
Canada
532 Posts
 Posted 02/05/2014  7:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Fixguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Found this article an interesting read about Germany's Gold:

http://www.freemansperspective.com/germanys-gold/

How much physical gold is held now anyway?
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macmercury's Avatar
United States
5857 Posts
 Posted 02/05/2014  8:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add macmercury to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The article and other similar ones has been wrote up, rewritten many times and nothing is new, the real answer will never be real. The real reason for there's no shortage in PM!
Pillar of the Community
United States
3789 Posts
 Posted 02/05/2014  11:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
yea those articles are everywhere. I guess they are written up to keep everyone excited about gold and give reasons why the price then can shoot up or why its being kept down, etc etc etc.
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fistfulladirt's Avatar
United States
4333 Posts
 Posted 02/06/2014  06:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fistfulladirt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The problem is, we're always discussing the paper price, and not physical.
When I listen to LED ZEPPELIN...so do my neighbors...
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basebal21's Avatar
13014 Posts
 Posted 02/06/2014  11:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Its the exact same price. The physical price is the spot price with a standard markup so that everyone in the supply chain make a profit. Anything more than that and its now a numismatic item which is a whole different world.
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Fat Freddy's Avatar
United States
1200 Posts
 Posted 02/06/2014  11:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Fat Freddy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I just checked the current Kitco silver spot and the current SLV price.

What I found (as of 11:33am Thurs 2/6/14 was: Kitco Silver Spot = $19.91 and SLV = $19.16.

I don't get it. Why the difference?
Pillar of the Community
United States
3789 Posts
 Posted 02/06/2014  12:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I use SLV, and GLD, as proxies. Why? Because they are easier to demonstrate to the folks at home where the price action is, such as following on a chart.

I would rather use the the futures contracts but my worry was it would not be accessible to a wide variety of people.

Since in the financial markets, SLV and GLD provide ample liquidity, heavy volume and are standards used, these work best for everyone to show whats going on with the price.

Now why are GLD and SLV not penny for penny to the spot prices? They are backed by the physical metals respectively, but use a function of derivatives, contracts to formulate the price. Thats is why you see the slight differences.

However, SLV and GLD are excellent representations of the gold and silver markets.

THere is, however, NO diffrence at all, between the physical and paper prices. Spot will always be aligned and beholden to the futures market.
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Fat Freddy's Avatar
United States
1200 Posts
 Posted 02/06/2014  2:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Fat Freddy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
We know this thread is SLV/GLD-driven and that it's so because SLV/GLD is the communicational mode of the trader's world. No questions there.

But... Inside three sentences you first say that "They are backed by the physical metals respectively, but use a function of derivatives, contracts to formulate
the price. Thats is why you see the slight differences." and then you say that "THere is, however, NO diffrence at all, between the physical and paper prices."

In essence, you recognize and confirm that there is in fact a difference and then you deny the existence of what you just recognized and confirmed. That seems
to be illogical and self-contradictory.

Nonetheless---the bottom line is that while SLV may be allied to and a representation of physical spot, there is in fact a >5% difference between the two. That's
what was shown to me by current readings of SLV and Kitco silver spot. Speaking as a collector of physical silver, I wish my LCS used SLV instead of Kitco silver
spot as the basis for their pricing. I'd rather pay the lower of the two prices.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3789 Posts
 Posted 02/06/2014  3:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
let me try and say it again in a better manner-

those are tracking issues in SLV and GLD because of the nature and how those products are structured, as I mentioned earlier, the various vehicles used to make these ETFs. They are tied to the metals they propose to follow.

A fellow member of this board said something to the effect that "thats because we talk about paper versus physical". Thats what I was addressing- and that is:

The futures market sets the prices for the physical spot prices. There is no disconnect between these two markets, that is my point.

Again, I was addressing your first comment about the differences between SLV and physical spot. If we looked at the futures contract and spot, we would see no deviation.

I, however, in the best interests to keep this simple, easy to understand and to help folks easily follow at home with their own charts, chose SLV and GLD as they are widely used and recognized benchmarks, over futures contracts.

I want folks, especially my fellow brothers and sisters here, all of everyone here, to see how easy it is to see where prices are going, that really if you pay attention, anyone with the time and patience can spot where the markets going.
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noD's Avatar
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1584 Posts
 Posted 02/06/2014  4:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add noD to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The futures market sets the prices for the physical spot prices


This is not entirely true IMO.

When you buy into futures you are betting the price of the commodity will go up, or down, whichever side you take. If your bet it correct, you win. If not, you lose. These actions alone have very little influence on commodities prices.
These actions alone are only a small piece of the pie.

If you were to bet on corn futures and drought ruins the crop or great conditions create a bumper crop, the price of corn will go up or down. The bets futures traders make have very little effect on the price of corn.

If the US dollar were to become very weak or very strong, (or any of the myriad of other factors which influence PM prices) the price of PMs would go up or down. The bets futures traders make would have very little effect. They would either win or lose.

The effects of futures trading last only until the contracts come due.

Traders can an do drive prices up and down to a point, but many other factors have more influence.
Edited by noD
02/06/2014 4:57 pm
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