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What Happens To Gold And Silver Next? Look Out Below?

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Silverhawk74's Avatar
United States
3670 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2013  3:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silverhawk74 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
They just have poor luck JK at predicting a coin flip is all, lol.....
Pillar of the Community
United States
3789 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2013  3:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Jim

I am gonnan take a guess here but I would think that those kind of folks are unloading into every rally in silver and gold.

I know if I was sitting on gold and silver right now I and had an agenda I would be doing two things-

1- Selling more gold and silver into the rallies quietly, little a time

2- I would be telling everyone "oh prices are getting stable".

3- I would say, "I am in this for the long term. So this actually is a good spot to be buying".

doesn't Kitco actually sell coins as well? I see sometimes their work around my parts.
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Silverhawk74's Avatar
United States
3670 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2013  3:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silverhawk74 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think true mental excelleration begins when one can admitt when they were wrong and change views....

I would say I rub many wrong often via my blunt know it all nature on computer and in the real world as well and if I am wrong-I will always come to terms with it an take the blame an admitt I was wrong-atleast after I cool off and the steam stops pouring out my ears, perhaps use the ol Fred Flitstone counting backwards from 10 to 1 technique lol....

I ask you bears all this and not just Yup-what number does the big four pmz each need to hit before you all come out of the bear cave and say-U know what I was wrong pm are on way back up this downswing is history?

I know atleast me and FF will be waiting with our ears on good buddies rof!

Reminds me of one of my all time favs Jackie Gleason in any Bandit movie, via I love the CB interactions lol.....
Edited by Silverhawk74
08/12/2013 3:19 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
3789 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2013  3:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well before I answer your question Hawkie, I need to clarify and correct you on a few things

1- I am a trend following trader, I dont care if an asset goes up or down.

2- There is no such thing as a bear or bull, it is senseless and useless gibberish put out by the media. I would challenge ANYONE here to see when I have ever used that term

3- I dont care about being right or wrong. I only care to be on the right side of the trade because thats how I get paid. I get paid by following a trend, up or down and then getting off when its done going down or up and then tells me to book profit.

4- I trade a wide range of assets and I am not trading silver or gold, I have booked major profits months ago shorting silver and gold, I have no interest in trading silver and gold right now. Rather I have been selling the grain complex short, I been buying the indices, I have been buying stocks as of late.

A big pet peeve I have is when individuals cannot comprehend that someone could make money on following trends in either direction, up or down. But I blame the financial media for that.

Thats why I feel I offer the best view on the PM markets, I am not looking for anything but a trend. I dont have a bias and there is no reason for me to want something to go up or down, I simply call the market as I see it.

Now to answer your question-

We are still in a overall primary downtrend with nothing but retracements for now. Does that mean that we sell short? No it doesn't, I have been short silver or gold for two months now and have moved on to other set ups.

I been waiting to sell short or waiting to buy, at this snap shot this is my game plan per my own rules, doing what has worked for me to be a PROFITABLE trader. Remember guys, I dont give a flying leap about gold or silver. I only care what trend does it give me because I only care about making MONEY. Got it? good.

This is how I view gold and silver right now-

Question- where do I sell this short?

Answer- I go off of confirmation. What would get me to place money and give me the BEST probability would be selling silver and gold short when they are read to break the 52 low. Simple. So here is how I would in part profit if we get that sort of move

Sell short SLV @ 17.75
Sell short AGQ @ 15.01
Buy ZSL @ 116.26

Futures contracts also- wont go into detail because its clear most folks wouldn't touch that yet, and I dont blame them.

So now we know where I would be selling short silver. Thats per my rules, what system and what has made me $$$$. Until or if and when the market reaches those price points, I dont do nada but wait.

Now what gets me to be a buyer of silver? Well, first we need to march up and fill those gaps that I have talked tirelessly about.

Right now as it stands, here's my aress of confirmation to buy silver

SLV buy @ over 23.16
AGQ buy @ 25.99
sell short ZSL @ 71.42

Silver over 24.17 gets me interested and would be my buy point.

However, at this point, we have not see those price targets in EITHER direction, so I do NOTHING but wait. I am not interested in a narrow range as a trend/momentum trader. I am interested in the big major moves that make tons of money by sitting and waiting in them until the move is played out.

In the meantime, I do have an eye on Plat that is starting to interest me on the upside.

But for now, we are in no mans land with gold and silver. Sure, there are traders with short time frames who are swinging and scalping this intra-day range. But without a doubt, the overall picture and trend is down and hasnt been snapped.
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bibd's Avatar
Canada
838 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2013  3:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bibd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
yup (and many others on this forum): I'm impressed at how civilized you stay on such a touchy topic. This thread is on its 84th page, and still very interesting.

Silverhawk: Personally, I will consider the downtrend over not at any particular price, but after sufficient time has elapsed. How much time depends on many factors that will unfold, but even if gold and silver never get any lower, they need another couple months of healing (minimum).

One thing you seldom see is an asset collapsing and then immediately regaining most of the lost ground.

This has been said many times before, but the first few weeks and percentage points on the way back up -- if we are even there yet -- is most risky. I'd rather avoid falling knives and see a stable base build, even if it means losing out on some "profits". And I don't have anything to sell, except for margin.

Back in 2008/9, I was smart enough to hold plenty of (as a proportion of my very modest portfolio) bonds and cash. But I made the mistake of buying in the bull trap of January-February. The new market lows in March 2009 hurt. I learned from this, waited out much of 2010 and cautiously acquired some more equity position (but apparently not enough!) At that time, Gold seemed too expensive to me, but I did buy a $2.50 and $5 for my type set near the top. I'm not bothered by this -- they are beautiful coins and are staying in my type set until I'm pushing up daisies!

Gold and silver are interesting things for me... I love them in classic coin form, but have zero interest in them as investments. I cringe at having money tied up collecting dust.
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bibd's Avatar
Canada
838 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2013  3:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bibd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'll add to yup's last comments in support of momentum versus range trading:

(1) Small guys (like many of us) get killed in fees trying to swing back and forth in a range.
(2) Range traders get stuck on the wrong side when the range breaks.

For $4.99, I can buy or sell a trend and do pretty well.
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United States
3789 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2013  4:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
btw- noticed I made a typo,, it should say "I have NOT been short". Last time I was short gold and silver was 6/28 when my trailing stop kicked in and I closed the position.
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Doug58s's Avatar
United States
899 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2013  4:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Doug58s to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Come on guys - I want cheaper silver not more expensive silver! I keep trying to find and backfill my bullion ATB's and like buying them a lot more at $115 than I did @ $160+
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Silverhawk74's Avatar
United States
3670 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2013  5:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silverhawk74 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well said Yup I agree with most all that we see things different on many levels but we agree its all just commodities nothing to get emotionally attached to either way....

I just think I am a bit bullish as I always look to see things going up, via the debt still there and etc., and that's just the fundamental start of it all, low class scores across the board in USA, just seems like if we are not careful we will down grade as nation, not just credit rating wise....

The world needs us both via the realists and the dreamers....

Jesus was a good carpenter but like Max said on that Gods, Guns, and ammo from his moms point of view....Jesus if ya got labor and time and 15 in a chair you cant sell it for 10 or you will be out of business before long lol....

If the world was only composed of carpenters then we would have much nice wooden structures, but little technical advances in other areas would have taken place....

And I would say I was wrong about PMZ if and when silver hits 14 per oz., and like Doug58s said I would prefer more of a drop and me as well more buying window as even admitting I was wrong would not stop me from stacking....

If it hit lets say 10 per oz., so what now ya can afford to stock more then you could ever dream depending on amount of storage space etc.. Its not like you will ever have enough money or commodities in life I like 95% of most of the world so why not stock pile as much as possible when its cheap and only then has one way to go....
Edited by Silverhawk74
08/12/2013 5:28 pm
Valued Member
aandabooks's Avatar
United States
223 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2013  5:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aandabooks to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Personally I want to see silver continue up. I bought a bunch in the $18s and lowered my DCA to under $23 per oz. I don't have a lot of ready cash left for a big move lower as I have been dabbling in guns for the past couple years to go along with my silver buying. I would love to see $30 before Christmas so I can cash out of a couple hundred ozs and buy a couple more collectible firearms.

I understand that we are still in a downtrend according to yup and if we do go down around $15 I will be tempted to sell off some guns to purchase more silver.
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basebal21's Avatar
13014 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2013  6:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I ask you bears all this and not just Yup-what number does the big four pmz each need to hit before you all come out of the bear cave and say-U know what I was wrong pm are on way back up this downswing is history?


30ish for me, basically back to where it was before the massive fast drops started to say the current trend has turned around. To call it complete trend reversal Id want to see it close to last years high or stay up for an extended period of time. Right now the movement has been large enough in the given period of time to say anythings really changed
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Silverhawk74's Avatar
United States
3670 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2013  9:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silverhawk74 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would agree with that Baseball as you seem to have a pretty solid and balanced/logical view of the the market trends....

Maybe you are just a numbers guy as baseball is all about the mathematical statistics eh, as one could argue the pm and markets in general are all based on same mathematical formulas and equations....

Homer run hitter are nice, but give me a base runner like Robinson or Henderson any day of the week and a team that knows how to move the guys around the bags one base at a time and if they have pitching I say that is a formula for a title team. All while getting inside the pitchers head the entire way as they steal bases....

I have no clue what that has to do with pmz or market in any way, just felt like saying it lol....
Edited by Silverhawk74
08/12/2013 9:42 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
1554 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2013  9:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1893S to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Silver prices will be rising, they can only be held down by manipulation for a short time as is evident by the Summer prices. Silver bottomed a month ago. Watch for silver to trace back to the highs previously held. The 3 month dip was a grasp for cash by the banks, etc. Silver and Gold are King!
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3789 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2013  10:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Lets look at the action for today-

We see both gold and silver have been up four in a row after having turned away from the gap they had entered into. Today they entered the gap once again.

Will this second attempt into the gap be the ticket to much higher prices? What areas do we need to penetrate to see higher prices? Lets turn to our proxies to see

GLD- we started today with a gap up. Once that happened, gold was solidly in the gap. Now gold needs to close the gap. Last time gold was here in the gap it came short of filling the gap and turned lower. So as it comes into the gap a second time, the first number we are looking at is 130.38. Getting into that and gold has finally filled and closed the gap. That could allow higher prices from there. So thats what you should be looking at going forward. watch how the price deals with closing the gap.

SLV- silver is pretty much in the same spot again. What is interesting with this move here is that silver has actually gone up into the gap after not even going into the gap last time. So here we see silver has filled the 6/20 gap and closed it. Pretty interesting.

Question is, does it hold here? OR does it turn back?

For those answers, we have to allow time and take everything in levels. If you want to see higher prices, its key that these levels hold and then we get churn and more chop and then watch the price move out higher.

As always, time is key, because it allows this move to play out. Time will tell us if the selling is over and prices are ready to move higher.

However, remember, gold and silver are still in downtrends. All that selling and distribution will turn into resistance price wise and will take time to digest. For that reason, I feel this is only a retracement in price and nothing more. Gold and silver will have to prove to me via price that they are leaving and out of their current downtrend.
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United States
3789 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2013  10:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
See, comments such as the one 1893S made are exactly why I feel and support the general and continued downtrend of silver and gold.

I see and have seen this all the time from both the general public and even fellow traders occasionally. The first thing wrong with his comment is regarding manipulation. Simply put, he has no supporting evidence that prices have been held down. Furthermore, if we are to believe his flawed belief in manipulation, then are we to assume that banks were behind the rise in prices as well? To me that is the height of lunacy to talk about manipulation when there is no evidence.

Finally, this sort of talk regarding "bottoms" is talk of fools. Again, I wish I had a penny for everyone who has called bottoms and tops,,, that is for suckers and fools. Price action as we have seen is not resolved nor turns around just that quickly nor prices return to their historical highs. That is mistaken and wishful thinking.

Furthermore no one is thinking about the danger involved in seeing prices rebound in this manner. What it increases is the possibility of a dangerous retracement to new fresh yearly lows.
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