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Replies: 37 / Views: 5,965 |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5722 Posts |
I agree that having an image of the green CAC sticker on the label makes things confusing. Quote: Once again straight graded coins from CACG are comparable to CAC stickered coins. This implies that CACG will use different grading criteria for their graded coins. The CAC website states that fewer than half of PCGS/NGC graded coins qualify for a green bean. Therefore a coin graded MS-64 by PCGS that doesn't qualify for a green sticker would have to be graded MS-63 by CACG? This just worsens the problem of inconsistent grading by TPG's by introducing a systemic difference in grading criteria between companies.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
4623 Posts |
Why do you think TPGs -should- be consistent with each other? Isn't their whole shtick that they are better, faster, more accurate, and have superpowers the others don't?
Or the more charitable view of CACG: After many years of reviewing coins graded by others, we've determined that they are inconsistent, often over grade, often misidentify cleaned coins, ignore questionable color/other problems, and instead of details grading for minor issues, they just quietly downgrade in straight-graded holders.
We will strictly enforce our standards and if you don't like our policies, submit elsewhere. We don't care.
-----Burton 50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973) Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983) Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
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Valued Member
United States
459 Posts |
What happened in this example is CAC/CACG rejected another straight graded NGC coin. The only difference is that if you send it for grading instead of stickering and they deem it cleaned... it comes back with more issues than just a red sticker you can peel off.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
Ultimately, a TPG holder should be easy to understand, with a grade and (in recent years) perhaps a CAC sticker. This simplicity is essential to the simple sale of a coin between buyer and seller. It's worked well for a long time. But lo, CACG shows up and decides to completely muddle this essential order by offering its own grading service - without any clear distinction about how its signature "bean", now printed on inserts that lack any refercnce to CACG, should be interpreted. Is this bean the same as a real sticker bean, or not? Does CACG only grade CAC-worthy coins? If not, do they have an insert without the printed bean for such coiins? Hard to believe how any group of smart numismatic investors could have rolled out this mess. Would you send a coin to CACG for grading? The questions are endless.
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Valued Member
United States
459 Posts |
Frog, my 2 cents
I understand them as two distinct services that represent the same professional opinion. The stickered coins get re-certified as "Legacy" inclusions at the same grade through the new grading service. I assume the gold stickers will get grade+1. I also assume there will be some upgrades when the coin is viewed outside the holder and they give the rims an inspection.
I've hesitated when sending some coins to CAC in the past because I didn't think they had a snowball's chance in the current grade unless I was already in so deep it was a Hail Mary. One or two points lower and they may not blink an eye when stickering it. With the grading service, they just put what they deem the CAC worthy grade on the holder to start with.
In the end, the market will determine whether the two services are equivalent. I haven't heard any complains about over-graded CACG certified coins yet.
I will definitely send raw coins for grading at some point if I remain above ground, because the rates are competitive for now.
I would not send a straight graded PCGS or NGC coin in as raw if it was of relative value. I'd send it for stickering. Or for crossover with a minimum grade if the form includes it as an option. I haven't reviewed anything past the tiers and rates yet. I use a minimum grade for NGC coins sent to PCGS for crossover and that has saved a lot of pain.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
4623 Posts |
Quote: I understand them as two distinct services that represent the same professional opinion. Different teams, different defined purposes. Quote: The stickered coins get re-certified as "Legacy" inclusions at the same grade through the new grading service. I assume the gold stickers will get grade+1. It's not automatic. They won't crack it out unless it appears it will cross per your specified grades, but there is always the possibility they will see something once it's out of the old holder. Quote: I also assume there will be some upgrades when the coin is viewed outside the holder and they give the rims an inspection. Very unlikely. If the old holder grades are inflated...
-----Burton 50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973) Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983) Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
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Valued Member
United States
202 Posts |
CAC stickering and CAC grading no doubt have their own issues. That said, I thought they did a pretty good job of at least explaining the grading vs stickering services over at the CAC forum. If you check over there it may answer many of your questions. Personally I think their angle is to set a very strict grading style. What is the motto PCGS uses for their crossover service? Something like 'the best coins end up in PCGS holders'. I think CAC is saying something similar. CAC stickering has established itself as only selecting high quality coins for the grade. The new grading service follows the same method. They want people to see a straight grade CAC graded coin as far superior to the same grade in a NGC or PCGS holder. A coin with a light wipe that would straight grade at NGC or PCGS is going to end up in a details holder at CAC grading. Thus everyone will want their coins in CAC grading holders as they establish themselves as the 'best' TPG. If this method will succeed for them, only time will tell.
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Replies: 37 / Views: 5,965 |
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