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numidan's Last 20 Posts
| Various Doubling On The 2025 150th Anniversary Of The Supreme Court Dollar
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numidan
Valued Member
Canada
218 Posts |
 Posted 04/27/2025 09:23 am
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I received a few of the 2025 150th anniversary of the Supreme Court dollar last week, both coloured and not coloured versions. Below are the different doubling that I have found on the coloured versions.
Obverse
Upper left loop of king's ear
Upper right loop and lower side of king's ear
Neck line
Reverse
Window frame sides
(Note: The bottom part of the window that looks like doubling is a normal design feature)
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| | Forum: Canadian Variety and Error Coins |
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| 2008 10c Double Die Obverse
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numidan
Valued Member
Canada
218 Posts |
Posted 04/13/2025 10:30 pm
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A nice example of 2008 DDO dime. Doubling visible below the letters in CANADA and date. It is also visible below the ropes holding the sail.
I've highlighted the doubled part.
Signs of splitting with notching is visible on letter D
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| | Forum: Canadian Variety and Error Coins |
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| 25 Cents - 2014 - Canada - DDR
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numidan
Valued Member
Canada
218 Posts |
Posted 08/04/2024 11:07 am
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I have debated this form of doubling in this forum on several occasions.
In my opinion, it is a form of DDR.
Here are two pictures from 2012 where you can clearly see the split at the tips of the antlers and the top of number 2.
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| | Forum: Canadian Variety and Error Coins |
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| 2015 10c Different Obverses
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numidan
Valued Member
Canada
218 Posts |
Posted 02/24/2024 6:05 pm
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Quote:
Same die, just well used
Can you indicate which picture you would consider early die state and which one you would consider the late die state?
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Can you put the photos right side up please? Kinda hard to see laying on my side.
Funny, I was using the letters as a reference for orientation. Different ways of seeing things I imagine. |
| | Forum: Canadian Variety and Error Coins |
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| 2015 10c Different Obverses
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numidan
Valued Member
Canada
218 Posts |
Posted 02/24/2024 4:33 pm
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There are two types of obverses for the 2015 Canadian dime.
The first obverse was used for the 2014 dimes. The second obverse features a slightly different design.
The easiest way to distinguish between the types of obverses is to look at the differences in the upper lip and crow's feet wrinkle details.
Additionally, obverse 1 shows a lot of deterioration at the ends of the letters used for the legend. Notice obverse 1 has thinner letters compared to obverse 2.
From my small sample, I estimate a ratio of 1 to 4 where obverse 1 is scarcer.
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| | Forum: Canadian Variety and Error Coins |
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| 2011-D Jefferson Nickel With Class VIII/Ix Or Converging MD.
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numidan
Valued Member
Canada
218 Posts |
Posted 07/15/2023 1:40 pm
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As I have indicated in other topics, this is not MD but I was not sure if it was due to DDD or a doubled die.
Quote:
You can put together a progression to see if the the doubling expanded or grew as the die was used, which would indicate DDD.
Doing a quick search on this web site, there are enough 2011D examples to show that this is probably DDD as long as all the nickels were produced from the same die, which I can not confirm.
The following montage shows the progression of the deterioration from an earlier die state to a later dies state.
The only question remaining is what changes were made by the mint to have such a difference in how working dies deteriorate when comparing nickels before 2005 and after 2005. |
| | Forum: US Modern Variety and Error Coins |
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| 2023 Nickel: Unusual M And Other Letters.
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numidan
Valued Member
Canada
218 Posts |
Posted 06/24/2023 10:48 am
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You will find this type of doubling for other years but 2011 D being the most common. Here are links to topics on this site having different explanation to their cause:
https://goccf.com/t/290418&SearchTerms=nickel,DDO
https://goccf.com/t/428760&SearchTe...bling,nickel
https://goccf.com/t/335713&SearchTerms=nickel,DDO
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Me personally I do not look at the coins from 2000 till now as the same as before on two squeeze. I wrote many time not to look at the coins in the same way. Seem the communities of collectors are stack with the old 9 plus 3 doubling classes and the Mint process before 2000.
Essentially what you are saying is that the post-2000 changes to the minting process (including hub and die making) must be treated as separate from the older manufacturing. Some old doubling classifications are no longer likely—or perhaps no longer even physically possible—and new quirks have been born that cannot be accurately described by the old I-VIII. Nickels are a good example coin, because the transition to single squeeze changed a great deal about how and where errors can be introduced in the manufacturing process.
I agree.
Changes to manufacturing process, metal composition, design, and let's not forget the workers (many baby boomers retiring and being replace by younger inexperience individuals) will have an impact.
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| | Forum: US Modern Variety and Error Coins |
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| 2012 Jefferson Nickels: Machine Doubling Identification, Attempt #2.
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numidan
Valued Member
Canada
218 Posts |
Posted 06/13/2023 09:26 am
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I am surprised Silvio by your comment  , a man of science like yourself should see the value of knowledge. It is not always about a quick buck!
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Die Movement Doubling
It is the first time I have heard about this terminology. From the description and pictures shown it is nothing more than machine doubling. Why come up with this new terminology?  Maybe Coop can explain what he saw that was different.
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I think we all agree that this is not a real doubled die example.
Sorry but I am not one of those. My research have led me to conclude that it is either caused by a die deterioration or a doubled die.
I am limited on the amount of US nickels I can get so right now I can not rule out die deterioration as I have not found two coins produced the same year, having the same exact doubling, and with different deterioration states.
Doing a quick search on this forum, you will find many posts of nickels have very similar type of doubling as this one.
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| | Forum: US Modern Variety and Error Coins |
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| 2012 Jefferson Nickels: Machine Doubling Identification, Attempt #2.
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numidan
Valued Member
Canada
218 Posts |
Posted 06/11/2023 09:38 am
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@Brandmeister, thank you for the extra pictures much appreciated.
Quote:
Surely there exists a short article that can quickly diagnose a particular doubling effect back to a specific root cause. A diagram, a few sentences, and some visual examples would make a much better beginner's guide.
Read the topic (link given on page 1 of this post) and you will see that I have tried this.
The best way to figure out if it is MD or not is by comparing a normal coin with one that has a doubling to determine if the device is larger or reduced.
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Perhaps when I have compiled a sufficient knowledge, I will write the clear, concise diagnosis guide that I have suggested
Not too long ago, on the CC's Canadian Discussion forum, O'connor asked the same questions as you about doubled die. Compiled sufficient knowledge and just released his first book on Canadian Doubled dies.
https://www.mcddv.ca/
So yes, with perseverance you can "enjoy a good round of golf" ;)
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| | Forum: US Modern Variety and Error Coins |
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| 2012 Jefferson Nickels: Machine Doubling Identification, Attempt #2.
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numidan
Valued Member
Canada
218 Posts |
Posted 06/10/2023 09:30 am
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@Dearborn, thank you for the 3D image. That is exactly what I was looking for and it does look similar to the nickel presented by Brandmeister.
I did a quick search online for the steps on how to draw 3D letters/numbers and briefly it states:
1) to draw the letter/number (this is the upper design element)
2) determine the direction of the 3D and sketch an outline around the letters/numbers (this is the doubled edge)
3) close the shape
So, this also demonstrates that there is an increase in device size, not a reduction as in MD.
@Brandmeister, if possible,
1) Can you take a picture of the word TRUST and
2) What is your estimate of the die state (early, mid, or late)? |
| | Forum: US Modern Variety and Error Coins |
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| 2012 Jefferson Nickels: Machine Doubling Identification, Attempt #2.
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numidan
Valued Member
Canada
218 Posts |
Posted 06/09/2023 2:11 pm
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@Dearborn, thank you for 3D image. Can you produce an example with digits "20" ?
@nick10, did you read the topic I gave a link to?
Here are two examples where edge profiles are not the same although they were created from same die.
The top image is a rounded edge observed on letters and numbers used on US pennies and
the bottom image is a trapezoid edge observed on letters used on older US nickels.
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| | Forum: US Modern Variety and Error Coins |
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| 2012 Jefferson Nickels: Machine Doubling Identification, Attempt #2.
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numidan
Valued Member
Canada
218 Posts |
Posted 06/09/2023 1:29 pm
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Quote:
in practice the dies deteriorate such that the devices end up being larger than on a drawing
You are right nick10, the devices are larger but not skewed in one direction! The deterioration being more severe near the rim as the outer rim of the die expands.
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a coin made by a real doubled die with have two images of the devices, neither of which is flat like a shelf,
Go and read the following topic (pages 2 and 3) showing it is not always the case:
https://goccf.com/t/442616
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instead if such a coin is viewed from an angle, both images will appear a bit rounded on their highest points above the fields
In the image below, observe the highlights of the edge of the doubling and the devices, they have the same highlight gradation and width indicating they have the same edge profile.
Quote:
let's be precise about the cause
Tanner believes it is die deterioration doubling but I'm not totally convinced. What I can tell you for sure, it is not machine doubling.
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| | Forum: US Modern Variety and Error Coins |
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When a die deteriorates, doesn't the serif become thicker?
