dcap47's Last 20 Posts
| Is My 1732 Pillar Dollar Real?
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dcap47
New Member
United States
7 Posts |
 Posted 06/19/2013 9:18 pm
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| I had a friend take the 1732 coin to a local jeweler and perform an XRF chemical metal composition test. The results came back 95.1% silver, and 4.9% copper. What do you think this means? Could this perhaps be the original metals used? Thanks for any additional thoughts. |
| | Forum: World Coins and Commemoratives |
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| Is My 1732 Pillar Dollar Real?
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dcap47
New Member
United States
7 Posts |
Posted 06/17/2013 3:16 pm
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Very interesting stuff everyone has brought up. I have learned a lot more about the history of the pillar dollar coin, and more specifically the probable history of the exact coins I have. It is interesting to know of all the different theories and such.
From the looks of it, I agree that I have, in all likely-hood, the Fisher reproductions of the coins. That being said, they are still remarkable and beautiful coins, even if probably not completely authentic. And I agree with what another poster said that there is still some numismatic value here to the right enthusiasts, given the alleged stories and history behind the coins, and given the grand allure that the pillar dollar has a tendency to create.
I also find interesting the one poster who said that Fisher took the badly eroded coins that were salvaged and melted them down, using that original silver to create his reproductions. That idea alone has me pretty excited in knowing that my coins, though probably not produced in the 1730's, at least could be made of the exact same silver originally used to mint 1732 coins. If true.... that is pretty cool!
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| | Forum: World Coins and Commemoratives |
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| Is My 1732 Pillar Dollar Real?
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dcap47
New Member
United States
7 Posts |
Posted 06/13/2013 6:36 pm
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Quote:
Combine the fact that wrecks sometimes reveal heretofore unknown varieties (and it's at least worth considering whether those Fisher pieces could in fact have been real, even if assuming probably not)..... with the idea that it could be conceivable for there to have been some tinkering with technique/style in the first year or two of milled production and the pillar design...... it was worth considering.
I think it was realeswatcher? that brought up a good point here.... Is it possible that the first two years of production (1732 and 1733) perhaps had slight variations from coins minted after those years, being that it was a revolutionary new minting process at the time, and was slightly altered after 1733 when the 1733 fleet sank? Are there any known real 1732 or 1733 pillars that were not salvaged from shipwreck that we could compare these to? Or perhaps were ALL of the 1732 and 1733 coins produced at the time were on the 1733 Spanish fleet which sank off the Florida coast?
What I'm trying to say is, maybe the fleet that sank in 1733 was carrying ALL of the 1732 and 1733 coins at the time from the mexico mint, and that all coins of those first two years were immediately lost to shipwreck. If that were to be the case, how is there any basis of comparison between the true 1732 and 1733 coins. Maybe those initial 2 years of production had slight variances that were changed after the 1733 wreck, beginning in a new variant that was used 1734 and on?
I'm not sure if any 1732 or 1733 coins were not part of the wrecked fleet? Does anybody know anything about this? Perhaps the Spanish 1733 fleet that sank was carrying all of the 1732 and 1733 pillar dollars from Mexico at the time of wreckage. If so, then maybe that COULD explain the minor variances from my coins (and many other 1732 and 1733 coins) from pillar dollars of a later and far more common year, say a 1736 coin. |
| | Forum: World Coins and Commemoratives |
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| Is My 1732 Pillar Dollar Real?
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dcap47
New Member
United States
7 Posts |
Posted 06/12/2013 6:33 pm
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Now that you mention it, I believe you are correct when you say the man was talking to me about the old cob edging. He was saying that's the reason the mill pressed coin came about with the security edging, because like you said people were shaving silver from the edges, and up until that point, it was very hard to tell. That is why they started having designed edge. And I think he was also mention the cobs when he was talking about royal versions of coins, and not the pillar dollars. It may have confused me at the time, and the years haven't cleared things up any better until hearing your explanation.
Also, I was able to borrow a camera and took a couple pics of the 1733 MX F. Let me know what you think. I guess it's safe to say that my 1732 is probably a Fisher "fake" given the incorrect assayer, and the same guy who gave me that also gave me this 1733, so I'm not sure whether that may effect the credibility of the 1733 I have, being that both coins came from the same person. Still, it would be interesting to get some more opinions on the 1733 I have. It has the same edging, weight, etc. as my 1732.
As far as any kind of metal testing.... it would be interesting to see how my 1733 compare's to your verified 1733's
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| | Forum: World Coins and Commemoratives |
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| Is My 1732 Pillar Dollar Real?
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dcap47
New Member
United States
7 Posts |
Posted 06/11/2013 3:52 pm
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Interesting stuff realeswatcher brings up. I'm not sure what to think anymore haha. If it is a fake, then it's certainly not a recent fake. I've had the coin for about 10 years now and I think the family member who gave it to me said he had it for almost 30 years. Years ago he did mention it being different to regular 1732 pillars in regards to the edging, assayer, etc. Over the years the exact details have become a little hazy to me, but I seem to recall him saying that this coin was one of the rare imperial coins for the royal family, or something along those lines. Apparently, the vast majority of coins at the time were for the common folk, but according to him, there was also a rare variant intended only for the immediate royal family that very few people knew about. That is what he told me back then. As far as the legitimacy to his claims, that's obviously up for debate. I have never heard anything along those lines anywhere else, only from him.... Still an interesting concept though, and perhaps MIGHT explain a variation in the edging or even might explain the Assayer MF. I know its a major reach, a story like that, but was just wondering if anyone else has ever heard of anything like that.
He also gave me a 1733 MX F in similar condition. Unfortunately, don't have any pictures of it at the moment, and my camera is broken. Those pics of the 1732 I had saved on my computer from a while ago. Maybe I can get a new camera and upload the 1733 MX F. I'm really interested in the 1732, though, as I heard that is the date that is worth the most, if real. Any other thoughts? Thanks for the info and speculation so far, it has really been insightful. |
| | Forum: World Coins and Commemoratives |
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| Is My 1732 Pillar Dollar Real?
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dcap47
New Member
United States
7 Posts |
Posted 06/10/2013 9:03 pm
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I was given a 1732 pillar dollar from a family member many years ago. He has since passed away. Don't know much about it and the person who gave it to me never really admitted how he came about it, but he always assured me it was legit. It's been sitting around my place for years now, and I always did want to know more about what I have, as I have heard that this coin could be quite valuable, but also that there are a lot of fakes of this coin, especially for my coins year of 1732. If anyone can offer their opinion to its authenticity, it would be greatly appreciated!
The coin measures 4 cm across, and when I weigh it the weight flashes between 26.9 and 27.0 grams for a couple seconds, before finally setting on 26.9 grams. I will include pics of both sides, as well as the edging pattern that meets on the exact two opposite sides of the coin. Let me know what you guys think! Any other questions, just ask. Thanks guys!
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