HGK3's Last 20 Posts
| Question About DDR's On Lincoln Cents
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HGK3
Pillar of the Community
United States
530 Posts |
 Posted 04/18/2025 12:39 pm
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The move to the single squeeze method of creating working dies in the mid 1990's has cut way down on the possibility of any die being doubled.
Previously working dies were created by being heated and having the hub pressed into them. If a second pressing was needed to insure properly impressed dies, the hub and die had to be accurately realigned.
If not realigned exactly you ended up with a second impression on the working dies, sometimes significantly deviating from the first.
The advent of the single squeeze method, which as the name implies creates a die in one try with no need to realign anything, eliminates most of the potential classes of doubled dies.
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| | Forum: US Modern Variety and Error Coins |
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| Die Crack, Die Break, Cud, Split Die, Or Shattered Die? 2014 D Quarter
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HGK3
Pillar of the Community
United States
530 Posts |
Posted 03/17/2025 3:01 pm
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I'm not convinced this is PMD and need better photos before I can agree with the consensus opinion.
Nice full sized photos of obverse and reverse are needed as are photos of the defect, perhaps backed off a little further to establish context, and of the area closer to the bottom of the reverse side as well.
While I agree with the premise that raised metal usually means PMD, that's not always the case. Laminations and clad layer defects, for instance, can sometimes remain raised, even after the coin is struck.
What we can rule out is any kind of cutting device being used since there's no pinching at the edges and no signs of any cutting damage on the obverse.
There's a lot going on with this coin. Notice the lack of rims and faint devices (Quarter and TES OF AMER) on the obverse, almost in a polar fashion?
Photo 2 below is of the reverse and shows almost no devices at the edge. Why? Can't be grease in the dies because a grease filled die produces strong rims. Could this be a weak strike combined with PMD?
Possibly, but photo 2 shows at the extreme right hand side what looks like the beginning of a split in the clad layer.
Also, what's with the unusual texture to the fields around TATES on the obverse, Washington's neck and then again on the reverse at K1 and K2 moving diagonally across fields?
All this may be for naught, but those better photos would really help answer some questions. |
| | Forum: US Modern Variety and Error Coins |
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| The Troubles This Penny Has Seen.
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HGK3
Pillar of the Community
United States
530 Posts |
Posted 03/17/2025 1:54 pm
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Not technically a Dryer Coin as the edges would be worn smooth and the faces of the coin would show significant degradation. Also, the coin looks slightly out of round.
I've heard Mike Diamond describes these kinds of coins as having been "reduced on the horizontal plane", which I take to mean some type of mechanical action has been applied to the coin, such as with a pipe reduction tool, for example.
The net result to the coin is essentially the same as what you see on a dryer coin, though, so perhaps a distinction without that much of a difference.
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| | Forum: US Modern Variety and Error Coins |
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| 2021 Shield Cent Struck Thru Webbing
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HGK3
Pillar of the Community
United States
530 Posts |
Posted 03/10/2025 9:44 pm
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Quote:
So, I think some misunderstood what I was saying, I do not question that it is a legitimate error, it may be the best shield error I have seen.
Apologies if it appeared I was implying you had doubts about the legitimacy of the coin. I was not, but rather was simply expressing my sense irony over how the Eisenhower escaped this kind of scrutiny, even though the area of the indent on that coin is greater than almost the entire area of Lincoln cent.
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| | Forum: US Modern Variety and Error Coins |
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| 2021 Shield Cent Struck Thru Webbing
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HGK3
Pillar of the Community
United States
530 Posts |
Posted 03/10/2025 3:01 pm
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So this recently posted Eisenhower Dollar with a massive struck through managed to avoid any questions about the fundamental laws of physics but the OP's Lincoln get's questioned?
https://goccf.com/t/477019
FWIW, here's a PCGS graded Jeff with an almost identical appearance:
https://www.pcgs.com/cert/35684604
I think the more interesting question is how?
If the webbing was retained wouldn't it have interfered with the plating process? The struck through area of the coin appears fully plated.
Also, it's hard to see how it could have gone through the upset mill with the webbing attached either.
I lean toward assisted error, but like almost all of those there's never really any way to know for sure and in the end it doesn't make it any less super cool.
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| | Forum: US Modern Variety and Error Coins |
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| 1962 Lincoln Memorial Proof Penny?
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HGK3
Pillar of the Community
United States
530 Posts |
Posted 03/04/2025 2:32 pm
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Quote:
okay, so I stuck it beside my 64 proof and assuming its due to the color or darkness of the coin as to why it may be Cameo or Dcam?
Short answer is CAM and DCAM are determined by the depth and completeness of the frosting on the devices and the mirror finish on the fields.
Since both frosting and mirror are a result of treatments done to the die, the more coins struck with a die the less frosting and mirror finish show up.
In other words, it's a way of measuring how fresh the die is. Unfortunately it's a completely subjective standard so measuring the difference between the two objectively is impossible. |
| | Forum: US Modern Variety and Error Coins |
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| Most Unusual Errors In Pennies?
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HGK3
Pillar of the Community
United States
530 Posts |
Posted 02/15/2025 3:57 pm
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It's actually not complicated and works to avoid confusion.
"Errors" refers to mistakes that happen during the manufacturing process. Everything from mis-aligned dies to double strikes and clipped planchets are all mechanical in nature and are the result of some failure in the manufacturing process that produces something other than the desired finished product
"Varieties" refers to the finished product that differs from other examples of the same coin because of a variation in the die. Repunched mint marks, re-engraved dies and doubled dies are all examples. These came out exactly as the die that was used intended the coin to look (insofar as dies an intend anything, mind you), so it's a variety of a coin rather than an error coin.
And yes, unfortunately, Tacc is correct in that these terms tend to be well defined and as such you will cause more confusion and be less precise if you try to use them interchangeably.
You may think you ordered spaghetti, but when that waiter brings you a plate of lasagna you will object, even though both are pasta, tomato sauce and cheese, right? Agreed upon definitions are critical. |
| | Forum: US Modern Variety and Error Coins |
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| USA 1 Cent 1991 D Strike Through?
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HGK3
Pillar of the Community
United States
530 Posts |
Posted 02/03/2025 1:39 pm
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They don't anneal zinc during the thinning process. The metal is thinned mechanically and turned into a very large roll (around 1300 feet long), at which point it is fed into a blanking machine which punches out the planchets.
In fact, one of the "advantages" in using Zinc is that it's considered to be "self annealing" because it's such a soft metal (3/10 on the Mohs scale) and they don't have to anneal the sheet, the blank or the planchets at any point in the process to make them strike up better.
Second, assuming there were defects in the surface of the planchet (which happens), when it is struck by the dies and has 50 tons of pressure applied to it nothing can exist or remain outside of the shape of the pattern of the dies because that much force makes the metal move like a liquid and it literally flows into the recesses of the die.
Depressions in the planchet can be created by foreign material on the die or the planchet, but your coin shows metal that has been moved outside the shape of the intended devices.
Look along the bottom of the base of the memorial, for instance. There are at least 4 spots where metal exists outside of the intended line of the device. The biggest one is just right of center.
That can't happen during the striking of the coin because any such defect would have to either an defect on the die (which means thousands of other such error coins would have been found) or it would be obliterated by the strike.
The first two columns on the left, at their top, both show moved metal, as do both columns in photo 5.
Can't say definitively that every divot in your cent is due to PMD based just on your posted photos, but when you see that much metal movement the PMD alternative just makes more sense.
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| | Forum: US Modern Variety and Error Coins |
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| 1944-P War Nickel - Metal Composition Error - 51% Copper 40% Silver No Manganese
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HGK3
Pillar of the Community
United States
530 Posts |
Posted 01/17/2025 9:00 pm
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Quote:
both the NGC report and the goldscope tests don't list Manganese which means by default an off-metal error.
I have to disagree with your logic.
Your NGC report did not say no MN, it only said 91% AG and CU. You can't make the leap to no MN simply from it's absence on the report, especially since the report clearly said 9% of the coin is something other than CU and AG.
The Goldscope test and your NGC report are also very seriously at odds with each other over the make up of the coin. So much so, in fact that one of them has to be rejected as inaccurate.
Which one and why? |
| | Forum: US Modern Variety and Error Coins |
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| 1944-P War Nickel - Metal Composition Error - 51% Copper 40% Silver No Manganese
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HGK3
Pillar of the Community
United States
530 Posts |
Posted 01/17/2025 4:30 pm
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Quote:
Something interesting I just found out. They were minting Ethiopian 50 cent coins in Philadelphia in 1944 which were 80% silver 20% copper though the size of those coins don't match. Is it possible they were melting Ethiopian planchets down and making War Nickels?
Unfortunately, this cannot be the foreign planchet error you mentioned.
The 50 Santeem of Ethiopia has reeded edges, is 25 mm in diameter and weighs 7.03 grams, compared to the Jefferson Nickel which has smooth edges, is only 21.2 mm in diameter and weighs 5 grams.
The 50 Santeem planchet wouldn't fit into the striking chamber for a Jefferson Nickel given the very significant size difference, and even if it did, somehow, the resulting coin would weigh 7.03 grams, not +/- 5 grams.
Given the lamination error visible on the reverse, an improper alloy mixing in the material is almost a certainty and I, along with the others who have said it already, think your anomalous readings are due to the testing of a small spot of the coin in which the alloy mixture is slightly different and not representative of the actual total alloy percentages of the entire coin.
It's much like how my coffee gets sweeter as I get closer to the bottom of the cup because I didn't stir the sugar properly. The total sugar to coffee ratio for the entire cup is one number, but test it at any one particular point and you'll get a different number.
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| | Forum: US Modern Variety and Error Coins |
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| 1981 LMC Struck Through Grease?
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HGK3
Pillar of the Community
United States
530 Posts |
Posted 12/26/2024 7:15 pm
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It doesn't just go through the dryer cycle. It gets stuck in between the inner and outer drums of commercial dryers and between tumbling and rolling it comes out like that.
Click on the link dryer coin for some really great illustrations as to how it happens and some extreme examples. |
| | Forum: US Modern Variety and Error Coins |
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| An 2008 LMC With A Strike Through Revisited.
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HGK3
Pillar of the Community
United States
530 Posts |
Posted 12/26/2024 6:45 pm
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I don't see how this could be a struck through.
On the die the S is incuse and the flat field is in relief, so when striking the planchet anything in between the planchet and the die would be transferred more to the field and less to the S.
But here, it's the exact opposite with the effect being less on the field and more on the incuse (on the die) devices. |
| | Forum: US Modern Variety and Error Coins |
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| 1964 Kennedy Half Dollar - Clipped Or PMD?
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HGK3
Pillar of the Community
United States
530 Posts |
Posted 12/17/2024 7:05 pm
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Super cool.
Clearly a legitimate clip because you can see very faintly the valleys of the reeding on the clipped edge when the coin was struck in the collar.
However, I think it's a ragged clip rather than a straight or curved clip. The edge looks like the coin is two pieces of metal sandwiched together, but we know it's actually a solid alloy.
Instead, I think it's from the untrimmed edge of the strip of metal the planchet was punched from.
Also, on the reverse, near HA, you can see that the beveled edge is undulating and uneven. That shouldn't happen if the clip came from the punch. |
| | Forum: US Modern Variety and Error Coins |
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| 20? Dryer Nickel Or Planchet Error
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HGK3
Pillar of the Community
United States
530 Posts |
Posted 10/27/2024 11:45 am
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That's a weak strike, not a dryer coin.
Bifacial and symmetrical weakness, lack of rim design, original proto rim still retained.
A well worn weak strike, no doubt, but not a dryer coin or a grease strike.
It's possible the weight of the coin has a relationship to the weak strike, such as being caused by a thin planchet. |
| | Forum: US Modern Variety and Error Coins |
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