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ClusterCoin's Last 20 Posts
| Australia George V 'Cheating' Penny
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ClusterCoin
New Member
Australia
37 Posts |
 Posted 08/27/2023 03:02 am
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I purchased a batch of world coins at auction and noticed this oddball Australian penny in the mix. It has two George V heads. Someone cut two pennies in half and soldered them together. Judging by the verdigris in the joint, this was done a long time ago.
The two kings are rotated by 90 degrees, and when I flip the coin in my left hand I can make both kings appear upright when the coin is flipped.
The coin has a high amount of wear and the same kind of rectangular indentations on both sides, suggesting it was already cut and modified when the wear and damage was caused.
So, was something like this used for cheating in games of chance, used by magicians, or someone's lucky charm? I haven't seen a coin like this before and don't know how rare they are. It's something I will keep as it's an interesting item, but was wondering what sort of value it could have.
Thank you
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| | Forum: Variety & Error Coins, Bank Notes, Paper Money: Australia, New Zealand, & South Pacific (Oceania) |
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| Is This A Confederate Bond? Receipt For A Bond?
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ClusterCoin
New Member
Australia
37 Posts |
Posted 08/21/2023 8:24 pm
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Thank you for your comments lettow.
It is an interesting item, and as you say, more like a short term loan rather than a bond. How would someone know where to repay the $2000 if the paper didn't list who the money was borrowed from? The interest rate is pretty outrageous, seeing as hyperinflation was ravaging the Confederate States by then. |
| | Forum: Checks, Stocks, and Bonds |
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| Is This A Confederate Bond? Receipt For A Bond?
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ClusterCoin
New Member
Australia
37 Posts |
Posted 08/06/2023 08:54 am
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I recently acquired this interesting note dated November 2, 1864. It looks like a Confederate 4% Bond for $2000, but I'm not sure if it's actually a bond or a receipt for a bond. Can anyone tell me what it is? I've been looking on Google and Numista but can't find it.
It's really fragile and printed on slightly pink coloured paper. Ink is faded and looks old.
Thank you
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| | Forum: Checks, Stocks, and Bonds |
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| Does Anyone Have A Sigma Metalytics?
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ClusterCoin
New Member
Australia
37 Posts |
Posted 06/24/2023 01:12 am
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I have a Sigma and have previously praised the device, with some caveats, but yesterday I came across an interesting example where the device gave erroneous readings.
I purchased three Napoleon 40 Francs gold coins from a reputable auction house that guaranteed authenticity. 1808, 1810, and 1812. After receiving my coins I tested them all using the wands and the 22K gold setting. 1808 and 1810 tested perfect, but the 1812 coin was off to the far right. Oh no, did I get a fake coin? It looked real...
The measurement mode gave 9.08 and 9.7 for the genuine coins, but 14.8 for the suspect coin. Thinking I might have been ripped off, I took the coins to my trusted bullion dealer that does XRF testing for free (don't know if I can mention them here however...)
All the coins tested between 21.3 and 21.5K gold, with copper and impurities of silver and lead. Tested on both sides of the coins. I didn't press the staff member for the exact composition of the 1812 coin, but it appears the impurities completely threw the Sigma off.
So, the Sigma is a wonderful tool, but use it with caution. |
| | Forum: Main Coin Forum |
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| Selling Coins On Ebay - Posting Overseas From Australia?
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ClusterCoin
New Member
Australia
37 Posts |
Posted 05/13/2023 02:31 am
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Hi,
Rather than start a new thread, I thought I would continue this old one.
How do I send a gold coin overseas that I sell on eBay from Australia?
Fedex, UPS, DHL, Australia Post, etc all forbid any gold and silver being sent in international post, and have a blanket ban on coins and banknotes. They're listed as prohibited items along side drugs, guns, etc.
How do companies send coins to PCGS?
https://auspost.com.au/content/dam/..ds-guide.pdf
Points D3.2 and D3.3. Blanket ban
I have used Interparcel before (intermediary for courier companies) and they have a ban too.
https://au.interparcel.com/help/gui...d-restricted
Select USA and UPS, Fedex, DHL, etc
Prohibited:
Articles of exceptional value (eg,works of art,antiques,precious stones,gold and silver)
I have a MyPost account with Australia Post, and if I enter 'gold' or 'silver' in the Customs description field I get a warning that such items are prohibited.
So, how do people do it? Is everyone lying on Customs forms?
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| | Forum: Coins, Bank Notes, and Paper Money: Australia, New Zealand, & South Pacific (Oceania) |
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| 1814 Napoleon Bonaparte 20 Francs - Genuine?
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ClusterCoin
New Member
Australia
37 Posts |
Posted 03/27/2023 08:02 am
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The coin ended up selling for AU$550+16%, which is below reserve. That is AU$640, or US$429. As the coin contains US$364 of gold that is quite a low sale price.
90% gold coins attract 10% GST in Australia (999 gold does not), so the cheapest possible retail price for a genuine Napoleon coin would be US$400. I have seen generic 19th and 20th century 20 Franc French and Belgian coins sell for more.
I did not bid on the coin as I think it's suspicious. The high Sigma measurement reminded me of a fake Australian florin I have that's made of a lead alloy. I wouldn't be surprised if this 1814 coin is gold plated lead alloy.
Anyway, good luck to the buyer and I hope they didn't get ripped off.
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| | Forum: World Coins and Commemoratives |
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| 1814 Napoleon Bonaparte 20 Francs - Genuine?
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ClusterCoin
New Member
Australia
37 Posts |
Posted 03/25/2023 08:37 am
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Thank you sel_69l for your response.
I have mixed feelings about this coin. It's the last year of Napoleon's reign, so perhaps the mint wasn't as stringent in its coin production? Or as you say, it's possible this coin wasn't made in France.
The Sigma is a wonderful tool but obviously it's not foolproof. It is possible to get erroneous readings on embossed bullion or high relief coins, but this coin does not have those features. I wish I had my calipers with me to test the thickness.
As for an XRF test, I wish I could afford one. I don't have another coin of the era to compare it against. On the same day I did test an 1874 20 Franc Belgian coin and it tested perfect on the Sigma. Both coins are meant to be 90% gold, but the Napoleon coin was way off expected value.
I think someone will snap up the coin at auction on Monday anyway. I have been going to estate auctions for a few years and have never seen anyone test the authenticity of coins. In the past I have spotted some fake Australian 34/35 florins for auction, so I'm always wary of what's on offer. |
| | Forum: World Coins and Commemoratives |
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| 1814 Napoleon Bonaparte 20 Francs - Genuine?
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ClusterCoin
New Member
Australia
37 Posts |
Posted 03/24/2023 10:13 pm
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Hi,
I would like an opinion on whether this 20 Franc coin is genuine. Estate auction.
https://auctions.smallandwhitfield....-francs-coin
It weighs 6.43g (correct), has the correct diameter, but my Sigma Metalytics machine fails the coin on its 90% gold/balance Cu setting. The measured resistance is 12.18, with the small wand. 91.6% gold coins usually have a value of 8.8, so this 20 Franc coin is wildly off the mark.
Are Napoleon coins alloyed with copper, silver, or are impurities causing the reading?
The coin itself looks good with lustre on the reverse. |
| | Forum: World Coins and Commemoratives |
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| Does Anyone Have A Sigma Metalytics?
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ClusterCoin
New Member
Australia
37 Posts |
Posted 03/22/2023 12:06 am
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@Dorado, I know your post wasn't aimed at me, but I thought I'd respond as you touched on an important topic.
First of all, that page with the fake coins and resistivity readings is a helpful resource. Do you know of any pages like it for genuine coins?
While the Sigma is a very handy tool, it is possible to fool it by playing around with the plating and alloy to make the fake bullion. Remember that counterfeiters can buy the Sigma too, and experiment with it to make a better fake product.
But to make a coin/bar with the right weight, size, and resistivity would require considerable skill and may be beyond most counterfeiter's abilities.
Another problem area with the Sigma is false negatives. I have 2 Australian $200 22K 1981 gold coins, but they both test outside the brackets on the 91.6% setting. My coins are genuine (testing by look, weight and size), so it's possible the maker didn't solely use copper when alloying to make 22K. |
| | Forum: Main Coin Forum |
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| Does Anyone Have A Sigma Metalytics?
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ClusterCoin
New Member
Australia
37 Posts |
Posted 03/21/2023 7:24 pm
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| @Spence, depends on the model and the probe. Sigma publishes how deep their device can test metal. Burying a tungsten bar more than a few mm below the surface is probably going to fool the Sigma, but if you're buying gold bars that large then I would be buying from a trusted source anyway. |
| | Forum: Main Coin Forum |
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| Does Anyone Have A Sigma Metalytics?
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ClusterCoin
New Member
Australia
37 Posts |
Posted 03/21/2023 09:16 am
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There are times where it's not possible to test the weight and dimensions of a coin. I often encounter this at estate auctions, where people have slabbed coins or put them into flips I can't rip open because the staff would get mad.
An XRF is the gold standard in testing, but even that is not fool proof.
I use my Sigma as an additional tool to help me find dodgy coins. Whether it's worth spending so much money on one is up to the individual. One good thing however is they hold their value, and second hand units are very rare. You're likely to get back most of the unit's purchase price in a few years if you choose to sell. |
| | Forum: Main Coin Forum |
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| Does Anyone Have A Sigma Metalytics?
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ClusterCoin
New Member
Australia
37 Posts |
Posted 03/21/2023 12:58 am
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I purchased one recently from the USA. I'm in Australia and got it slightly cheaper than buying locally. Unfortunately the first unit was faulty and its internal battery didn't work, but Sigma sent me another unit that worked fine.
I am happy with my Sigma and as I regularly attend estate auctions, it's great for testing coins. I have already found a fake ~$400 coin that I would have otherwise contemplated purchasing.
It is very sensitive to even slight alloy changes. For example, I have some certainly genuine sterling silver UK crowns from the late 19th century that test non genuine on the Sigma. Just a little contamination with metals other than copper, or perhaps a little bit too much or too little silver, and the coin tests as suspicious.
It does have a raw measurement mode too, so if you know the expected value for coins of a particular age you can test that way. And of course, a counterfeiter could make a fake using the right alloy too.
Speaking of which, does anyone know of a database of Sigma measurement mode values? I have three Maria Theressa 1780 83.3% silver coins. These were restruck and often faked.
Two measure 1.88, the other is 2.09. They all weigh the same and are of the right thickness.
It would be really great if someone's compiling a list of known good values of coins. |
| | Forum: Main Coin Forum |
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| Lodz Ghetto Marks - Legitimate?
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ClusterCoin
New Member
Australia
37 Posts |
Posted 03/10/2022 03:17 am
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gumer, what makes you think it's a fake? Only reply in detail if you're comfortable, as counterfeiters may read this forum and try to improve their fraudulent product.
It does look quite different to the 20 Mark coin I saw here in Adelaide Australia (its been sold, so I don't have a photo of it). For me, one side looks unusually shiny while the other has corrosion on it that doesn't look like other coins from the era. |
| | Forum: World Coins and Commemoratives |
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