DOCC's Last 20 Posts

DOCC

Valued Member

United States

196 Posts

Posted 09/27/2023 10:07 pm

Too much fun digging to get discouraged :-) It is like opening a present every time you pull a coin out of the ground. A few weeks back I pulled a 1901 Barber Quarter and almost wrecked on the way home. Driving with my knees at 70 with a loupe in one hand and the coin in the other - looking for that S (probably would have wrecked if it was there).

Forum: US Classic and Colonial Variety and Error Coins

DOCC

Valued Member

United States

196 Posts

Posted 09/26/2023 8:10 pm

Thanks all - so much to learn from all of you. Ty2020b - thx a ton for the info dump on markers - great data points to have.

Acetone soak helped expose a bit more detail. I think the MM position is the best indicator to say no 3.5 leg - slight rotation but with higher placement.

Also does not appear to be any flow lines on rear legs or the belly. Really hard to be absolute given the condition.

There is still an indication of a die break or something hitting the rim at 3. At this point I'm inclined to think it may simply be a crack in the encrustation - it is difficult to discern if raised or depressed.

Post Acetone soak and with a little manipulation of angle, the lead leg becomes much more pronounced.

Forum: US Classic and Colonial Variety and Error Coins

DOCC

Valued Member

United States

196 Posts

Posted 09/26/2023 4:35 pm

Thx for the suggestion Brandmeister - I'm not a fan of Vinegar whatsoever, even if dilluted. If Acetone does not provide enough clarity to make a judgement call, I'll use a 2% alkali wash. It runs about 8 on the pH scale and is far more gentle on metal than acids (from my experience). There is a good rim so I can likely just do the reverse.

Forum: US Classic and Colonial Variety and Error Coins

DOCC

Valued Member

United States

196 Posts

Posted 09/26/2023 12:21 pm

Will upload new pics tonight.

Forum: US Classic and Colonial Variety and Error Coins

DOCC

Valued Member

United States

196 Posts

Posted 09/26/2023 10:55 am

Agreed Brandmeister. I did order some Nic-a-Date and will see what sort of impact it has on culls, I would never consider something as such on a value piece. I've had this coin in Acetone overnight, will let it sit until this evening to see if any more clarity arises. Did find reference to one other marker (die break below E in STATES right off back) but could not see thru buildup - hence Acetone.

Forum: US Classic and Colonial Variety and Error Coins

DOCC

Valued Member

United States

196 Posts

Posted 09/25/2023 10:18 pm

Dearborn - to be brutally honest I went thru every ref image on PCGS and I just don't see the proverbial "butt crack". Am I missing something?

Forum: US Classic and Colonial Variety and Error Coins

DOCC

Valued Member

United States

196 Posts

Posted 09/25/2023 6:05 pm

Looks like it has the die crack

Forum: US Classic and Colonial Variety and Error Coins

DOCC

Valued Member

United States

196 Posts

Posted 09/25/2023 4:25 pm

Western - it is an MD find. Probably didn't make that clear enough in first sentence where I said 'dirt' coin. I'll look for the die break, thx for the intel.

Never used NicADate but have plenty of cull buffalos to test with.

Forum: US Classic and Colonial Variety and Error Coins

DOCC

Valued Member

United States

196 Posts

Posted 09/25/2023 10:05 am

Quote:
too far right of the "E" in the five of "Five Cents".

I did consider that and probably did not use the best PCGS illustration but if you scroll thru their graded 3.5s I personally don't see the MM being off - at least by a significant amount. I do wish VV had some markers to look for but they do not even list this variety.

Is a shame on the corrosion but if it is a 3.5 it will not get thrown in the cull bin - just holder for the novelty of it :-)

Forum: US Classic and Colonial Variety and Error Coins

DOCC

Valued Member

United States

196 Posts

Posted 09/25/2023 08:59 am

A compromised dirt find however minimal circulation wear. I'm close to convinced this is a 3.5 legger based on comparison photos from PCGS photos on graded coins. Would appreciate additional eyes on this for confirmation.

PCGS pic for comparison

Forum: US Classic and Colonial Variety and Error Coins

DOCC

Valued Member

United States

196 Posts

Posted 09/18/2023 7:23 pm

Thanks Coinfrog - means a lot coming from you.

DOCC

Valued Member

United States

196 Posts

Posted 09/18/2023 7:18 pm

Quote:
How long did you do acetone and then how long with Verdicare?

I do not have a specific formula however the first dunk in Acetone is at least 24 hrs. Then it gets submerged in my 'dirty' tube of VC (don't replace or clean out gunk) for no set time, but never longer than a day. From there it is alternating between Acetone and fresh VC (drops on one side at a time) until I feel the coin shows no progress between rounds. VC may be spot applied only too - precise placement on a target area. Final in VC for protection is typical however in this case, Acetone was final stage to remove any VC chems since I'm sending it in for grading.

But each coin is different, especially dirt coppers. I pulled 5 LWCs out of same hole (1917, 3x1919, 1920) and none of them did as well.

Counterfeit Detection: 1796 Capped Bust Quarter Eagle Gold No Stars

DOCC

Valued Member

United States

196 Posts

Posted 09/17/2023 12:37 am

Interesting that a search on that TPG's site does not pull up a coin - assuming 202109 is serial. So they either yanked it or the actual holder is a fake as well.

Forum: US Classic and Colonial Coins

DOCC

Valued Member

United States

196 Posts

Posted 09/16/2023 09:04 am

Quote:
I think the green we see now may be quite temporary

Absolutely, it has been on the window sill in as much direct sunlight as possible since posting. Darkened up a bit already.

Coin only saw a brief stint in distilled water to remove any loose debris before Acetone. Although at the dig site - in the ground - it experienced a lot of moisture and freeze/thaw cycles over the past 100 years.

FWIW, I've literally seen an LWC change coloration before my eyes in less than 2 hours. Started at the head (closest to direct sunlight) and walked down the bust - it was fascinating to experience.

Happy to take another round of comparison pics before sent off if you are interested in seeing.

DOCC

Valued Member

United States

196 Posts

Posted 09/15/2023 11:26 pm

Quote:
Isn't gold from the ground more likely to straight grade than copper though?

Without question. The reference to the KY coins was more of a response to the inference that 'dirt coins' never straight grade.

I realize it will be difficult to get any conserved copper dirt coin to straight grade. This one is by far the best candidate I've worked on and that is why I'm sending it in.

DOCC

Valued Member

United States

196 Posts

Posted 09/15/2023 1:24 pm

They provide multiple reasons for 97-ED with burial being one of them. The examples pictured/provided in their video have serious corrosion/verdigris, etc.

I still stand by the statement that they provided no direct communication on dealing with ground-find coins - like hey, if you dug this from the ground it is automatic ED/Ungradeable. If it has ED/corrosion then absolutely tag it accordingly.

DOCC

Valued Member

United States

196 Posts

Posted 09/15/2023 10:28 am

Quote:
looks like it was a dug coin

panzaldi

You are hitting the mark with this statement, precisely why I am sending in this test. TPGs make no mention, provide no direction, on 'recovered' coins.

NGC straight-graded the dig finds from the Kentucky Hoard (https://www.ngccoin.com/news/articl...-war-coins/) and NCS did conservation work on all of them.

So unless that was a pre-negotiated outcome I'm not convinced it is as cut and dry as 'dig' vs 'no-dig'.

DOCC

Valued Member

United States

196 Posts

Posted 09/15/2023 10:16 am

I did a final Acetone bath in an attempt to remove any chemical indication of VC. Certainly would be pleasantly surprised if I get a straight grade but I'm expecting DETAILS. I'll provide an update in a month or so.

DOCC

Valued Member

United States

196 Posts

Posted 09/15/2023 01:32 am

Thanks all.

So here is the deal, I actually do plan on sending this in for grading. Wait, what? Read on first please....

I know some will scoff about giving money to a TPG for such a common date coin as this. However, I have little vested interest in the coin itself. My ultimate goal is to try and establish a baseline for my own coin conservation work. I really have no idea as to the how, when, or why a TPG issues straight grades on conserved coins. I gather most of us are clueless on that point.

This was a ground find as some of you likely guessed. I did not mention at first because I did not want that information potentially influencing any grade opinions. Simarily, the TPG will not know although I suspect they could sniff it and tell me the exact date and hour of the day it was dropped.

I feel it conserved wonderfully and I'm willing to pay the $37 dollars (coupons) to see what PCGS comes back with. If it DETAILS (CLEANED or ED) then I know - at least for coppers - that the best possible conservation outcome would likely never straight grade. If not DETAILS, I have my baseline (sort of - we all know each day is different with TPGs). I think that data point is worth the spend, at least in my world of metal detecting for coins.

As found on the left, as conserved on the right (Acetone, VerdiCare)

There are loads of healthy and free, collectibles coins in the ground and I intend on adding as many as I can to my collection. If some have the possibility of straight grading all the better.