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Pillar of the Community
United States
1247 Posts |
What are called market factors or eye-appeal should be call whimsy because that's all they really are. That markets will put their own value on such things isn't, IMO, anything to cheer about. I'd be rather worried about a "market" that is just a mirror image of us. Rain-bow toning, Full Split Bands, Full Heads, Full Rivets, Split-Tails Full Bell Lines etc, etc have and probably always will wax and wane. Someone can pay thousands of dollars, in auction, for what are die cracks above the eyes on a Morgan dollar. And yet a die crack in Lincoln's Head might be worth $5 on MS60. Lincoln cents are probably every bit as popular as Morgan dollars aren't they? Where's the rational? And even more importantly, how is it that TPGs can presume to rationally quantify the whimsy of the moment  That's the skeleton clacking in the closet. Quantifying whimsy is a contradicting. And at the end of the day, contradictions chew the carpet. |
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New Member
 United States
20 Posts |
That was quite a tirade!  I know what you mean - but I think the situation will not simplify in the future. Over time numismatics has gotten more complex with all the factors you mentioned...and I think it will only get more so, not less. I like Ayn Rand also, btw....though The Fountainhead is my favorite... Edited by Prometheus68
01/21/2007 8:02 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1247 Posts |
Unless Atlas shrugs before it has a chance to become more complex. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1267 Posts |
I really can't imagine why people get so fired up and personal about issues like this. If you don't like toned coins, DON'T BUY THEM. It's that simple. Leave them all for me and my fellow collectors who appreciate them. Actually, we won't give you much choice; we will outbid you every time, as those of us who like beautiful toning will be willing to pay premiums for it. (I paid $3500+ for my avatar Battle Creek 1886 NGC MS64, and recently turned down a bona fide offer of $4500 for the coin.) I trust my own competence to determine which ones to buy, and which ones to avoid. I might make a few mistakes here and there, but I bet you'll make some mistakes buying overgraded white widgets once in a while too. We all make a few mistakes ... but they are outweighed by the beauty of the sets we create. And I take the beauty contest challenge any day: put a complete set of beautifully toned coins next to a set of high-grade white coins, and I guarantee you the toned coins will win the eye appeal contest.  |
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Valued Member
United States
288 Posts |
Colors? Oh yea. Kinda know it when ya see it. Beautiful toned coins will always make the heart jump. No question. But,... Toning changes with time. Strike does not. Short of mishandling, a fully coin struck coin will always be a fully struck coin. From what I understand, all silver coins will eventually turn black given enough time. Full stikes should stay that way forever. Remember though, we will not. It is your money and I say buy what you enjoy. Gusp
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1267 Posts |
But,... Toning changes with time. Strike does not. Short of mishandling, a fully coin struck coin will always be a fully struck coin. From what I understand, all silver coins will eventually turn black given enough time.Not true. Once removed from the toning source (ie the mint bag in the case of most Morgans) the toning will stop. I have a few pieces that I have pictures of from almost 20 years ago (former owners, auction catalogues) and the toning has not changed at all.
Edited by hadleydog
01/22/2007 3:31 pm
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
quote:
I really can't imagine why people get so fired up and personal about issues like this. If you don't like toned coins, DON'T BUY THEM. It's that simple. Leave them all for me and my fellow collectors who appreciate them. Actually, we won't give you much choice; we will outbid you every time, as those of us who like beautiful toning will be willing to pay premiums for it. (I paid $3500+ for my avatar Battle Creek 1886 NGC MS64, and recently turned down a bona fide offer of $4500 for the coin.)
In all honesty, if toners didn't command such premiums, I'd collect them. When they're good, they're beautiful. Like any other variant, there is a legitimate market composed of some people who know the market, and some who don't, and the price is only "good" or "bad" relative to the market. Unlike some other issues, I don't think toners are a bubble market. My only worry is the increasing sophistication of the doctors *cough* NGC Peace Dollar*cough*. |
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Valued Member
United States
288 Posts |
I was thinking like 50-2500 years. Humidity changes also affect tonning. Move from Colorado to Florida for 5-10 years. Go live near a sulphur mine...ect. Silver tones.
I do collect premium colors coins. Love them. All of mine have changed somewhat over the last 20 years or so. Slabs will slow down the process.
Anyways, the point I was trying to share is that blemish free full strike coins are the finest existing examples the mint produced. Not bad, especially on business strikes. Toning will give way before the metal ever will.
Yes, I still pay premiums for toned coins. Fully struck or not, but obviously, I strive to acquire the full strikes. A few years back colors were in. A few years later out. Now, In again. Go figgure. I buy them because I find them to be much more interesting, attractive, and to be wonderously rare flukes of nature mated to rare works of ART. I learned to live with the toning changes. Enjoy all... Gusp
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1267 Posts |
My only worry is the increasing sophistication of the doctors *cough*NGC Peace Dollar*cough*.Yes, SuperDave. The Doc (gototoning) has slipped several past NGC recently. All of them seem to be 1922's or 1923's, and they are all similar (although the pics/scans can look different). Heck, one had me sitting on the fence for awhile. It's like it 's always been.......the doc's get a few through, the grading companies learn what they look like, and they stop grading them. Same with the Jeffersons from not long ago, and the blue Indian Head cents. Here are a couple of pictures of gototonings work. Take a good look folks, and steer well clear.      Image:  hmmm.jpg35.99 KB Image: hmmmm.jpg68.34 KB Image: 64jfk101.jpg89.35 KB Image: 64jfk101r.jpg98.22 KB
Edited by hadleydog
01/22/2007 5:26 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
Toned coins are like cars. Some people like Chevy's, some like Fords, some like Crysler or Fiat, etc. In other words if you like a toned coin, so what. At coin shows I go to most people will not buy a toned coin at all. I do go to about 2 to 5 cokn shows a month. However, there are a few dealers that specifically deal in tones coins and try to charge more from them. They do not do well as a general rule. Even their web sites are loaded with toned coins. Again at most coin shows I go to they are not well received and the prices are minimal versus a normal coin in the same grade. Myself, I don't like toned coins, don't want one and if I did acquire one I would dip it in Acetone or Jewlry cleaner. SORRY
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
He's good, hadleydog. You have to give him that. I'm thinking the magenta bands are just a little too wide for reality, but I'm no expert.
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New Member
United States
20 Posts |
I agree with Dave, I like 'em when they're really vibrant. But the premium on them is just astronomical.
Anyway - looking at those baked Peaces - how often do toned coins exhibit the same pattern/colors on both sides? I haven't personally seen too many like that - usually they are quite different...
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1267 Posts |
SuperDave, he was good enough to fool the experts on more than one occasion. After having to resolve the Anaconda Peace dollar mess, I think NGC finally got the message. There are a few telltale signs from this doc. The first, most obvious is the way the color doesn't pull away from the devices anywhere on any of the coins. Natural toning usually does, and the colors will be often be different in the recesses like the hair than the area immediatly around it. His color just crawls over the devices (look at the L in Liberty on the first Peace dollar), no changes in the recesses either. The colors are not right. Brown bands? Nope, don't think so. That funky blue in the center is not right, either. In hand, the coins appear to have a white flaky substance on them, that falls off over time. Here is an example of real, natural toning to see some of the differences.  Image: 1891-ccobv.jpg56.68 KB Edited by hadleydog
01/22/2007 7:54 pm
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New Member
United States
6 Posts |
cool does anybody have coins toned in the wayte raymond holders are these considered AT or NT
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1267 Posts |
quote:
cool does anybody have coins toned in the wayte raymond holders are these considered AT or NT
Coins toned in albums are considered NT unless the process is accelerated with the intent for profit or deception. There's a real mouthful, huh? The 1891-cc Morgan from my last post most likely spent many years in an old album, here's a pic of the reverse.  Image: 1891-ccrev1.jpg33.62 KB Edited by hadleydog
01/30/2007 4:58 pm
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Replies: 26 / Views: 3,234 |
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First Page
Posted 01/21/2007 8:01 pm
