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The PR-70DCAM Eisenhower Dollar That Isn't (Live Auction)

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 Posted 03/13/2012  09:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wquinn to your friends list
If there are visible dings with the naked eye, it would be an MS-67, at the very best.

There is a huge difference between a 67 and a 70. Shows PCGS is becoming one of the worst graders now.

And grading is an art to a certain grade. That is 67. After that it is much more technical. You are looking for defects under magnification when grading that high of a grade.

Those kinds of people aren't interested in buying the coin, but to have it in their registry set to have the top set.
Edited by wquinn
03/13/2012 10:12 am
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 Posted 03/13/2012  10:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CaptainFwiffo to your friends list
Perhaps they are hoping to cash in on the PCGS guarantee?
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 Posted 03/13/2012  10:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ArrowsAndRays to your friends list
Maybe this one has the golfing astronaut AND the lunar orbiter?
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 Posted 03/13/2012  11:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Foxwoods Man to your friends list

Quote:
Perhaps they are hoping to cash in on the PCGS guarantee?


Hmmmmm....good point

..and


Quote:

Isint collectorsuniverse owned by PCGS?


Yes, it is a PCGS sponsored forum, screened by PCGS for any company contrary posts.
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 Posted 03/13/2012  11:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add clairhardesty to your friends list
I am not sure that graders suddenly switch to using a loupe when they think a coin is a 67 or better. After all virtually all submissions of modern coins should fall into this range. Using magnification and three graders would significantly increase the cost of grading and reduce profit for the company. I suspect that such methods are reserved for very valuable coins that come with much higher grading costs and coins whose grade is actually challenged. I very much doubt that an IKE was given more than a naked eye look by a single grader, even if the assigned grade was a 70. Sure mistakes are made but probably not enough to warrant changing to more expensive grading methods. A collector buying a single coin should not rely on the grade on the slab because of this reason. Always get a good enough look at the coin you are buying to tell if it warrants the assigned grade. A "professional" grader is not really any better at grading than an experienced collector, they are much faster and can grade most coins accurately with the naked eye, but they are not any better than someone who takes five minutes to examine a coin under magnification before coming to a decision. The assigned grade of a coin should always be questioned before laying out your hard earned cash for it, not only do professional graders occasionally make mistakes, there is a usually a fairly large value difference between coins at the high and low end of any given numerical grade. If you are buying coins in bulk then you can afford to pay book value for graded coins because on average you will make out fine. That tack just doesn't work when buying a single coin.
Edited by clairhardesty
03/13/2012 11:44 am
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 Posted 03/13/2012  11:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wquinn to your friends list
That is true, but still since they are in that business, they should take the time to do it correctly. Otherwise, eventually no one will have a coin graded at PCGS.

If they don't adhere to the proper grading standards defined by the ANA, then they will get no respect either.

And at a grading of 68, it takes the use of magnification.
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 Posted 03/13/2012  12:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add unholyroller to your friends list
When I check PCGS they state that all 70 graded coins will be clean at 5x. That to me means if you "zoom" in on an image whereby making it larger than 5x...any flaws you see are not within the 5x standard. On a computer you can zoom in way bigger than 5x based in actual size of the coin. I mean heck...I could put it under 40x (which isn't far off of what zooming in on a computer image is) and see a flaw in any coin graded 70.
Edited by unholyroller
03/13/2012 12:17 pm
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 Posted 03/13/2012  12:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wquinn to your friends list
Shows they don't adhere to their own definitions. Pretty sad of them to do that.
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 Posted 03/13/2012  12:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cc99999 to your friends list
There are 106 PR70DCAM Ikes in PCGS holders. A PR70DCAM Ike, if one truly exists, would be something they would want to get right. This isn't a $30 coin. PCGS is super strict on giving out top pop grades- so I don't buy the one grader looked at this coin statement.
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 Posted 03/13/2012  12:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wquinn to your friends list
How can you say they are super strict if this one got graded as such?

Grading a 70 isn't a simple and quick task. If they spent the actual time needed, it wouldn't have been graded as such.
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 Posted 03/13/2012  1:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cc99999 to your friends list
Considering I have submitted a number of Ikes - several of which came back, in my opinion, a point below expectations- I can say that they are generally strict. As for Proof Ikes- they have a history of handing out PR69DCAMS as if they were handing out Pez. 70s are another bird altogether. I have no clue as to why this thing made it... and maybe buying PR70DCAM Ikes is for crazy people or easy marks- but this looks no better than 68 to me.
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 Posted 03/13/2012  1:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wquinn to your friends list
I would suspect it came from someone, maybe even a dealer, with some PCGS connections to give it a better grade than what it deserved.
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 Posted 03/13/2012  2:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add clairhardesty to your friends list
I don't think that PCGS graders slowed down, magnified to 5x, and tripled up when grading the 25th anniversary sets that flooded them and the other top TPGs in the past months. This actually is my point about "professional" graders. They have been doing what they do enough (and are probably specialists in a few coin types) to grade accurately with the naked eye or with the aid of minor magnification (using a large lighted magnifier, maybe 2x, as a matter of course). They are good but some mistakes are made, few enough so as not to affect much, but some nonetheless. They probably don't spend more than 10 or 15 seconds per face, no matter what grade they are thinking of assigning. Basically they start at 70 and mark down from there and once both faces are viewed the lowest grade reached is assigned. If no mark downs were seen in the 30 or so seconds then 70 is assigned. Classic coin grading is probably different since 70s are not ever expected, even for proof coins, but modern mint direct coins, especially those of the past decade, are expected to be 69 or 70 with a very few 66-68 specimens thrown in. All of this doesn't mean they are being sloppy or even that they are setting their own standards aside. It just means that they are being practical and efficient. If a grader has become good enough that his/her 30 second grades are always the same as ones assigned using more time consuming methods (or with a few in a thousand mistakes) then there really isn't an issue. It still doesn't mean that I am going to pay for a coin based solely on its assigned grade and a book price. I am going to look at the coin and set a value of my own, using the assigned grade as a starting point. Even at PCGS, not all 70s are equal. There is a range of "perfection" and a range of values because of that. When "perfect" coins demand such a significant premium over "almost perfect" ones, I am never going to buy them sight unseen. I need images that I can grade from for myself.
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 Posted 03/13/2012  3:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wquinn to your friends list
I see what you are saying, but still, there shouldn't be errors like that on grading a coin a 70. I really think the quality has gone down drastically at PCGS over the past few years.

Gives me reason to not buy PCGS coins. Best way to vote, is with your dollar, if you don't like what someone does.
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 Posted 03/13/2012  5:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Foxwoods Man to your friends list
I have no issue with buying PCGS graded coins...I just won't pay a premium for them
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