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 Replies: 23 / Views: 3,386 |
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Pillar of the Community
 Australia
1041 Posts |
i will try and weigh it it is larger then a normal dime and heavyer can someone give me the weight it should be and the demensions of a 1920 buffalo 5 c it has a f under the date
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Valued Member
Canada
271 Posts |
Quote:
could be on a mexican planchet 1 or 2 reales or a 8 reale I'm surprised nobody's told the big long story about the minting process yet. I guess it's my turn... Coins are struck with two DIES. The dies are what puts the design onto the coin. All modern coins, whether they have a reeded, lettered, or plain EDGE, are struck in a COLLAR, also known as the THIRD DIE. This is what ensures that the coins are the correct diameter, and it also puts whatever is on the edge (reeding) onto the edge. So that's the minting process. Now. Very rarely, coins are struck with two dies that are meant for two different coins. Coins can also be struck out of collar, making them oddly shaped and larger than a normal coin. HOWEVER, a coin cannot be struck with an incorrect collar. Only one collar can be used with one set of dies. Therefore, it is impossible for your coin to have been struck with Buffalo nickel dies in an 8 Reales collar. 'But if that's true,' you say, 'then what happened?' Have you ever seen a hobo nickel? If not, Google it right now, because they're works of art. Homeless people had a lot of time on their hands, and they would carve new designs into the nickels and whatever other change they might have. Maybe one of them carved the reeds into your coin. Or maybe it's just a modern-day guy with nothing to do. It's not a real error, but it's an interesting coin. Keep it!  |
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Valued Member
Canada
271 Posts |
Oh, and by the way, a MULE refers to a coin that was struck with one correct die and one incorrect die. No other error is a mule, including those involving the collar/third die.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
Interesting coin. Sort of looks like two halves put together with somehing inbetween. Not sure what that is all about but always makes me wonder who has all that time to spend messing with a Nickel.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
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got a email and they said it could be on a mexican planchet 1 or 2 reales or a 8 reale but I have never seen a mexican coin edge
I do not believe that the US Mint has ever struck Reale denomination coins for Mexico, only Centavos after the Mexican Revolution in the early 1900s. As OddCoins mentioned, the planchet has nothing to do with the final configuration of the edge since that is determined by the collar. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
That type of edge is not created using a collar (unless it is a segmented collar). You wouldn't be able to push the coin out of the collar. It is applied by an edging machine like the Castaining machine or a machine like the one the letters the edge of our dollar coins. The edge design may be applied either pre-strike if the coin is struck in an open collar, or post strike if it is struck in a close collar. (If done pre-strike and then struck in a close collar the edge design is crushed and mostly wiped out.) The buffalo is struck in a close collar so the edge would have to be applied post strike and since the mint didn't do this, this would be a post mint alteration. One other thing about doing it post mint. it would cause the edge to spread and make the coin look thicker than normal.
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1041 Posts |
well thank everyone
now my head is spinning with so many questions
1 if this is not a mule would it be a trail or a error coin ?
2 is this was milled or carved latter by a hobo this would make the coin lighter in weight as some metal would go in the process as this coin is heavyer and slightly larger this would make it a wrong planchet yes
3 so how could we explain the weight increase
4 so if this is heavyer and larger there must have been forgerys of this coin
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
It should be around 5g and 21.2mm. I lean myself towards some painstaking post-mint carving about the edge.
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21788 Posts |
Interesting, and a bit 'gauche' for me!
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1041 Posts |
have weighed a normal buffalo
normal buffalo weighs 5.1grams
wide is 21.19mm
thickness 1.78mm
strange rimm buffalo
weight 4.9grams
wide 21.27mm
thickness 1.8mm
so there is a bit diferance in then its wider thicker and lighter
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Valued Member
Canada
271 Posts |
Quote:
1 if this is not a mule would it be a trail or a error coin ?
2 is this was milled or carved latter by a hobo this would make the coin lighter in weight as some metal would go in the process as this coin is heavyer and slightly larger this would make it a wrong planchet yes
3 so how could we explain the weight increase
4 so if this is heavyer and larger there must have been forgerys of this coin 1. It's not an error coin, it is an altered coin. 2. Was the 'normal' Buffalo nickel you weighed in mint condition? If it was worn, as most are, that would explain the weight difference. 3. Same as above, the weight is probably normal. 4. There are no forgeries that I know of, but a nickel was worth quite a bit back then. I don't think it's a fake, it's just altered. Your coin is not an error. It is physically impossible for that coin to be a mint error. It is a curiosity, and it is interesting. Still a nice find! |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
Weight is within mint tolerances. Diameter Mint specs calls for 21.21 mm. Yours is a little wide, not sure if it is out of spec or not. Thickness on a struck coin is meaningless as there are too many variables. Thickness only has meaning when discussing the rolled strip or punched blank.
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Valued Member
Canada
271 Posts |
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Thickness on a struck coin is meaningless as there are too many variables. Really? I didn't even know that!  Conder, I figured that the weight would be within mint tolerances, but I didn't want to say so because I didn't know for sure. What are the average mint tolerances for a coin? |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
Tolerance for 1873-Present nickels is +/-3.0 grains(0.2 grams). The tolerance for 1866-1872 planchets was +/-2.0 grains.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1390 Posts |
 It looks like a hobo nickel that someone never finished. TSS  |
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Replies: 23 / Views: 3,386 |
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Posted 01/02/2013 08:51 am
