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 Replies: 34 / Views: 3,608 |
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
Because, unlike the "previous owners," PCGS gets paid to render such opinions and their opinion would be relevant to a plurality of potential buyers. What if PCGS had decided this coin was a counterfeit?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3253 Posts |
The way I look at it, Conder, the seller either submitted the coin to PCGS, or purchased it in a slab. If he valued the opinion of the TPG enough to submit it in the first place, he has no right to conceal that opinion when it wasn't to his liking (or else, if it came back overgraded, he should crack it as well, and offer it at the lower, more appropriate grade). More importantly, if he obtained the coin already slabbed, he got it at the discount such a details grade would always carry. To ethically demand full price for it now, he needs to explain how his cherrypicking skill has revealed a coin unfairly branded, and defend the subsequent markup. |
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
Had the seller said something to the effect of, "PCGS called this coin "Details" for graffiti. I disagree with that opinion, and offer the images for you to make your own decision," I'd have never said a word about it.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3755 Posts |
Being counterfeit is a lot different than an opinion on grade or damage. I am with Conder. The OPINION of PCGS means squat beyond authenticity. Again, what happened to buy the coin, not the slab? I am not 100% sure that this is graffiti. I can see it on my computer now, and at most it deserved a details scratched grade. The pics of the coin do not hide anything. The coin stands as is on its own merits. AS IT SHOULD. The opinions of someone at PCGS mean a lot less than the opinions of most of the folks here.
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
At least PCGS got to see the coin in-hand. All we have to go on is poor photographs.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
2362 Posts |
I'm with Conder and Smokeriderdon on this. Selling a coin that you know is counterfeit is a big deal, but we're talking about grade here. I see nothing wrong with a seller disagreeing with the grade and breaking a coin out of a slab to sell it.
Member ANA and EAC "You got to lose to know how to win". Dream On by Aerosmith Edited by cipster
11/23/2013 3:18 pm
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
Quote:
I see nothing wrong with a seller disagreeing with the grade and breaking a coin out of a slab to sell it. It's not about the grade. It's about PCGS seeing something they chose to call "Graffiti" rather than "scratches," implying a greater level of  (in my opinion). It's a Genuine-adjudicated coin that the seller chose not to mention (indeed he explicitly states it's a "no issues" coin), with what PCGS thought to be deliberate damage. And with the coin offered for sale accompanied by less-than-excellent images, buying the coin and not the slab isn't possible. I think PCGS badly undergraded the coin by calling it "VG Details," but that's another issue. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
595 Posts |
I do not agree with this tactic by the seller. The coin has been formally evaluated by experts who have been able to hold the coin in hand. The experts rendered an opinion that the coin has problems, yet the seller does not acknowledge it and even says in his description '.... WITH NO ISSUES.' (sellers caps). If I were to buy this coin and chose to submit it myself to PCGS, it would probably come back again as a details grade. I would be wasting my money because I would not have known that PCGS had already graded this coin. I agree with SuperDave that if he stated it had been graded but he didn't agree with it, that is ok because disclosed the potential problem. Another way to look at is buying a car from ebay where the seller says '... WITH NO ISSUES' when in fact the car did not pass its safety inspection and can not be licensed as it is not roadworthy. Failure to disclose something like this is unethical. |
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Pillar of the Community
1751 Posts |
I had a nice long post written up but lost it since the forum logged me out, so I'll just say this. Dave, I believe they market graded the coin for the graffiti. The seller is, imho, a scumbag for trying to sell a problem coin as a non-problem coin. And yes, it's a problem coin. Coins should receive full disclosure by the seller when sold, I do as much on any coin I sell. I render my honest, truthful opinion, even if it means the financial return is greatly lessened... because I am not the type to screw other people over. Unalike this ebay seller, obviously, who cares about nothing but the money, which is fully supported by his actions and decisions he made when relisting this coin. |
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
That's an interesting point, FTB; does PCGS do "Net" grades for Genuine coins? I was under the impression that they did strict "Details" grades as you and I understand them to be - an opinion of what the coin would grade in a "righteous" slab.
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Pillar of the Community
861 Posts |
Any picture of a coin, taken at the right angle and exposure, can hide any scratches/graffiti/marks etc that the photographer wants. This is why I would never by a $300+ coin on ebay ever. In this case, it's even worse. The seller knowingly cracked out his coin to hide the known problem (I can guarantee you that PCGS didn't just make-up the graffiti notation, somebody there must have seen it). It seems ebay has decide to change their criteria on crack-outs after centsles was allowed to list his crack-outs (we discussed this in an earlier post). Now that crack-outs are being allowed on ebay, I fear we are going to see a lot of these types of listings. Very scary PS: I know NGC does NOT net grade a problem coin down due to it's impairment, but, I'm not sure about PCGS. |
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Pillar of the Community
1751 Posts |
Case by case basis, Dave. IIRC, they stated when they rolled out details grading that they net and details if the problem is bad enough, I'm guessing that's what happened here. Netted it down, and slapped the details grade on it.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
675 Posts |
It ended up going for $300 even. I wonder what the buyer will think. Would LOVE to see this coin in person.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
The vertical scratches just above the date look like they could be initials. The other scratches appear incidental. PCGS was tough with the VG details as it does look Fine and close to VF but the graffiti is likely there.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
Quote:
That's an interesting point, FTB; does PCGS do "Net" grades for Genuine coins? I was under the impression that they did strict "Details" grades as you and I understand them to be - an opinion of what the coin would grade in a "righteous" slab. Not usually. I've had more coins than I care to admit grade PCGS Details and none were netted down. One in particular was abrasively cleaned/polished and I just wanted a slab for authenticity and it got AU Details. |
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Posted 11/23/2013 2:20 pm
