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Cleaning Coins Maybe A Good Tip?

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Valued Member
United States
80 Posts
 Posted 12/19/2013  6:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add uman2 to your friends list
On the other hand the residue might preserve the coin lol hu hu hu
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
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 Posted 12/19/2013  6:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pertinax to your friends list
I absolutely wouldn't use acetone in a plastic container and I wouldn't buy it except in a glass bottle.

Acetone is good at dissolving many plastics.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetone
Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts
 Posted 12/19/2013  7:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list
Ceramic or glass would be the number one choice to use with solvents but one type of plastic safe to use with acetone is polypropylene which is recycling code #5. Many plastic bottle caps are also polypropylene but they are typically unlabeled with a recycling code so it is best to stick with clearly marked #5 plastic.

PVC contamination on coins is almost always attributed to the long-term storage of a coin in a soft flip. Short-term storage is ok but it is best to use inert mylar flips(more rigid than PVC, tends to crack if sharply bent). PVC itself is not the problem, it is the plasticizers used to soften the PVC that leach out over time. Chlorinated compounds are offgassed and will react with water vapor to form hydrochloric acid on the surface fo a coin, that is what permanently damages the coin given enough exposure time.
Valued Member
United States
80 Posts
 Posted 12/19/2013  7:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add uman2 to your friends list
Ok my container has a 2 with the triangle arrows around it is that what you ment when you said 5 or is the 2 acceptable to or should I look for some that has the 5 mark on it? Where might I find acetone in glass jars? localy I dont shop online.
I have one more question for you biokemist6 give me a minute I cut it from my first post but saved it in a word file cause I know its a touchy subject for alot of folks. so ill post it for you to since you seem to be knowledgeable about chemistry just incase it could be helpfull or so I know not to use it. brb
Valued Member
United States
80 Posts
 Posted 12/19/2013  7:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add uman2 to your friends list
I have tried to use gun metal bore cleaner on some circulated coins and it seems to do a good job and doesn't affect the brownish blueish toning that is on the coins or what was leftof them on the circulated coins I used. It did make the tones more vibrant. I just put a drop on each side then pat dry with a clean microfiber cotton cloth it does leave a bit of oil on it(petroleum distillate?) but the more you pat it the dryer it looks while still leaving the coins tones a little more vibrant. Sometimes I use a steam cleaner after I let the cleaner soak in a bit being caarefull not to heat the coin up much and patting the one side dry and letting it cool(it doesn't get that hot just a bit warm) before doing the other side and afterwards it looks prefectly dry though less vibrant then leaving a little bit on the coin. It seems to get off some stains but some not so much sometimes. here is what the back of the cleaner says

Nitro solvent is a powerfull bore cleaner for use in firearms barrels and mechanisms removes lead deposits, nitro powder residue and metal fouling. CONTAINS NO ACID. SAFE on all gun metal parts. contains petroleum distillates, turpentine and Amyl ACETATE. I was wondering if this could be a good powerful alternative to just pure acetone any thoughts on this. Just remember I'm testing things on regular pre82 cents that are worn abit from circulation but still have some of the brownish toning. and I dont like how some of the coins come out but would never use on any coin I value or think someone else down the line will value I'm just try to learn the best way in case I come accross so gunky coins I want to clean. I found just the steam cleaner alone is pretty good at removing gunk expeicialy from inbetween the letters with out touching the coin. Has anyone ever talked about cleaning coins with steam cleaners and what was the outcome if so?
Valued Member
United States
80 Posts
 Posted 12/19/2013  7:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add uman2 to your friends list
Ok I lie. Sometime I wasnt always so careful when using the steam cleaner and let it get real hot but I only did that on circulated and worn cents. Just to see if it would mess up what was left on the toning of the cent or anything else. I coundt tell any difference but I think maybe it would be noticable under a powerfull microscope but I dont have one.
How hot could steam get. I love the whole 1 degree difference between hot and boliling water but does steam get hotter or does it stay at 212 and below. 212 BABY!
New Member
United States
25 Posts
 Posted 12/19/2013  8:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dei gratia regina to your friends list
Most pure acetone I have seen comes in a metal can or jug. I have never seen any that is sold in plastic. Nail polish remover is, and so is jewelry cleaner, though. Jewelry cleaner was the first thing I thought of when you said a little basket to put things down into the liquid.

I only use glass when I soak coins.

Why are you trying to clean with so many harmful things? They should not be used on anything of value, but maybe I am missing the point?
Valued Member
United States
80 Posts
 Posted 12/19/2013  10:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add uman2 to your friends list
I know I already said that I don't clean any coins that I value or that someone else might value mostly because they don't need it to begin with. I just wanted to test some things like the bore cleaner cause its a form of acetone I think or in other words acetate and its designed not to be harmful to metal or it wouldnt be used in gun barrels.Plus it doesn't seem to me to harm the coin but I'm sure id be told other wise o was hoping biokemist would elaborate but he must be afk or gave up helping me.
Ok the acetone I have is cvs brand 100% acetone but it does have one additional ingredient ... denatoniom benzoate what ever that is so yeah I guess its not 100% acetone but it says it is.

The only reason I started cleaning coins was because a pen leaked in one of my cent jars along time ago and I wanted to clean them it off and I remembered hearing how cleaning your coins can ruin them or the numismatic value and I didnt want to futher ruin any interesting coins that may have been in there even though some where already ruined with ink. And I read alot about the cleaning debate and decided to do my own experiments so I can see the results for myself since I had some coins gunked up with ink.



Is a steam cleaner harmfull do you know have you herd anything about that munismatically speaking? It seems to work the best on grease and sticky stuff anyways!



Where do you get your acetone in glass from id guess a chemist shop or something but is there any other places you can pick some up that the average person wouldnt think of? Do coin shops sell acetone I dont remember ever seeing any in the shops I've been in. I guess not because most advise against it cause it should be done by a pro if determined by such to need it or restoration/preserve it but it might be a good little upsell and a good opportunity to teach a lessen to new collecters about how, why, when or when not to clean a coin or it could be an up sell of such services.


btw... Yes you are missing the point!

I was just thinking nitro solvent might be a more powerful alternative to regular acetone and hoped biokemist would have an opinion.
Edited by uman2
12/19/2013 11:19 pm
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Australia
16873 Posts
 Posted 12/20/2013  01:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list

Quote:
Ok the acetone I have is cvs brand 100% acetone but it does have one additional ingredient ... denatoniom benzoate what ever that is so yeah I guess its not 100% acetone but it says it is.

You can read all about denatonium, and the debate on whether or not it is a significant contaminant, in this recent thread.

Quote:
SAFE on all gun metal parts. contains petroleum distillates, turpentine and Amyl ACETATE.


I just wanted to test some things like the bore cleaner cause its a form of acetone I think or in other words acetate...

Arrrrrgh. That grinding sound you are hearing is the sound of the teeth of all the chemists on this forum...

"Amyl acetate" and "acetone" are two entirely different things. Amyl acetate is an ester of acetic acid (the organic acid found in vinegar); acetone is a ketone. They do have at their core a similar chemical structure (CH3-CO-) hence their similar name, but their properties are completely different.

That being said, amyl acetate is not going to do very much harm to your coins - provided you don't mind them smelling like fake fruit. Amyl acetate is less volatile than acetone, so it will not all rapidly evaporate from the surface of a coin like acetone will. Furthermore, amyl acetate is almost completely insoluble in water (as are most of the other ingredients listed), so no amount of washing your coins will remove it unless you use soap or detergent to remove it.

Because their chemical properties are different, the kinds of things removed by the two solvents will also differ. Amyl acetate is less polar than acetone, so it will be better at dissolving waxy deposits but not as good at dissolving sticky things.

Basically, your gun cleaning solution is designed for cleaning guns, where the main problem being solved is to remove the gunk without using either water or acid, since water and acid are both death to gunmetal. The stuff is designed to not all evaporate off afterwards, to leave a protective layer of solvent behind as a barrier to moisture, to prevent the gunmetal rusting. None of these things are a primary concern with coins, and these days coin collectors don't want thin layers of anything left on their coins, if possible, especially if that thin layer changes the appearance of the coin.

Quote:
Sometimes I use a steam cleaner after I let the cleaner soak in a bit being caarefull not to heat the coin up much and patting the one side dry and letting it cool(it doesn't get that hot just a bit warm) before doing the other side and afterwards it looks prefectly dry though less vibrant then leaving a little bit on the coin. It seems to get off some stains but some not so much sometimes.


Just to see if it would mess up what was left on the toning of the cent or anything else. I coundt tell any difference but I think maybe it would be noticable under a powerfull microscope but I dont have one.
How hot could steam get. I love the whole 1 degree difference between hot and boliling water but does steam get hotter or does it stay at 212 and below.

I can't say I've ever heard of anyone steam-cleaning coins. I don't see why it wouldn't work, though the extra heat might accelerate oxidation reactions on less stable coin surfaces, such as bright shiny copper.

As for your physics question: while steam cannot fall below 212 Fahrenheit without recondensing as liquid water (we usually see the "mist" or "cloud" that results from this - steam above 212 Fahrenheit is transparent and invisible), steam can get much, much hotter than 212 Fahrenheit if you've got the gear to heat it with. You can heat steam up all the way to about 4500 Fahrenheit, beyond which point the water molecules spontaneously disassociate into hydrogen and oxygen atoms.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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23522 Posts
 Posted 12/20/2013  01:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list
1) There is no debate about cleaning; there are just informed and uninformed opinions. The person who says "never, ever clean a coin" is just as uninformed as the one who says "go ahead and brush it."

2) You're seeing more contention in the proper usage of acetone than actually exists here - those who know how to use it properly are on the same page of music with regard to methodology. There are plastics which are acetone-safe, if you're as knowledgeable as biokemist, but otherwise the universal recommendation is glass. You can't go wrong with a glass container.

3) Acetone is properly sold in metal containers, and properly sourced from a paint or hardware store. Glass is too dangerous to retail acetone in, due to the potential for immediate catastrophic consequences if you drop a glass container of it.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
19976 Posts
 Posted 12/20/2013  11:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list
Acetone will dissolve most plastics and those that it does not dissolve, it has the ability to extract other chemicals from the plastic. ALWAYS use glass containers with tight-fitting lids for soaking coins. ALWAYS rinse the glass with a little of the solvent you're working with and discard it.

In general, there are only 3 safe, consumer level solvents you should use on coins:

1) distilled/deionized water
2) acetone
3) xylene
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VERDI-CARE™ INVENTOR
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2135 Posts
 Posted 12/20/2013  6:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pertinax to your friends list
BadThad,
I can't PM you.
The website for VERDI-CARE charges an excessive $43.50 to ship to the UK.

I'm also wondering whether the post would prohibit its carriage (see http://www.royalmail.com/personal/h...bited-Goods), or whether UK customs would stop it or levy tax/customs dues.

I thought I would ask Santa to get me a bottle to try.

Is there a UK stockist, please ?
Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts
 Posted 12/20/2013  6:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list
I think I've suggested this before. We really need a separate forum called coin cleaning or cleaning coins.
So many stories, questions, suggestions, etc. are coin cleaning related. However, in a way it could be done if people would suggest to use the TAB for Search on this forum. They could request cleaning coins, Acetone, coin cleaning, distilled water or other similar names. However, one separate place for all such related topics would be easier for new memebers.
The Acetone sold in cans is due to a very complete cleaning of the metal used to make those cans. The process is not just making a metal thing, but a well watched for metal purity so as not to contaminate the Acetone. Acetone can disolve a lot of STUFF so care has to be done to keep it pure. A test should always be done anyway to check for any contaminatios if using on coins. This test also has been explained numerous stimes. Simply place a small amount of Acetone on a clean glass dish and allow to evaporate. Nothing should be left.
Always use glass for dipping of coins in Acetone. And remember you do not have to soak a coin in Acetone. A few minutes will do the same as a few years. I've put coins in Acetone for days and even weeks. Nothing happened after the first few minutes.
Other sources of Acetone, like fingernail polishes should be avoided. They all contain substances for women's nails and a smell to make it usable. Not good for coins though.
Acetone is readily available in almost any place that sells paints. Such as Walmart, Kmart, Target, Menards, Homedepot, Ace hardware and on and on. Usually in quart cans for from $3 to $5 a quart.
Do not use Acetone on or with cardboard, paper, metal, plastic or anything your not sure of. Clean glass is always the best.
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 Posted 12/20/2013  8:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list
Pertinax, you *should* be able to Forum Email Thad - you both have the feature turned on. Please give it a shot and report the failure symptoms in the Support Forum so we can fix you up if something's wrong.
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Philippines
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 Posted 12/25/2013  11:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add marcusjackson to your friends list
Rare items like antiques and coins are worth keeping in the long run. In due time, those collections increases their value as it ages. As a hobbyist and an investor, collecting coins and mining bitcoin is pretty much like investing on a promising business.
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