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Storage And Toning.

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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
1570 Posts
 Posted 06/22/2014  08:28 am  Show Profile   Check MetDet71's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add MetDet71 to your friends list
Toothbrush with water usually but if it's one I am keeping then I will use a dip or a silver cloth.
You will never soar like an eagle if you hang around with turkeys.....
Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 06/22/2014  10:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list
Certainly, the storage environment needs to be changed.
A description of the storage environment during the period when the toning happened may be of help to enable us to advise what changes may be needed.

I don't use PVC materials for the storage of my collection, but that may not be the cause here anyway. I am more inclined to suspect the containers in which your albums may be in, or access of humidity to your collection, and or the presence of sulfur (maybe in glue?), of the container(s).

Perhaps a metal box and silica gel desiccant included would be the way to go in your case.
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
1570 Posts
 Posted 06/27/2014  6:25 pm  Show Profile   Check MetDet71's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add MetDet71 to your friends list
Basically Sel, the case is aluminium with plastic trays lined with a velvet type material. The trays are obviously pressed and formed using heat and the velvet I think is either on a flat plastic before the shape is formed or is sprayed on after, the first being most likely. I have taken all of my coins out of this case but out of interest put a few in that are common to see what would happen. The following is from 3 days in the case, no more, just 3 days. For any new collectors to appreciate the below pictures I must stress that the effect you are seeing to occur naturally takes years.

The coin, before being locked in the case....




Storage-And-Toning.

Storage-And-Toning.

and the below pics, as it looks now. Again, let me stress that the effect is far greater than you can see on my pictures.



Storage-And-Toning.

Storage-And-Toning.

Storage-And-Toning.

Storage-And-Toning.
You will never soar like an eagle if you hang around with turkeys.....
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
3626 Posts
 Posted 06/27/2014  6:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pishpash to your friends list
Kev that is dreadful. You got the case second hand, perhaps something was spilled in there. You could try washing the case out with something and ditch the trays, or at least leave them well away from where you keep your coins. They are cheap enough that I would probably ditch them and get new. Perhaps it is nothing but a bad set of trays. I would clean the case, leave them out, but keep a couple of coins in there to see if it happens again. Or you could go into the toning business, some people like it?
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
1570 Posts
 Posted 06/27/2014  6:46 pm  Show Profile   Check MetDet71's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add MetDet71 to your friends list
I might throw it away Ann, or sell it on the US ebay, they seem to like toned coins. I have never seen a coin 'tone' so quickly, I am just glad that I didn't put my better stuff in there. It's a strange one this, probably one for a chemist to answer. I personally hate the rainbow effect on any coin, it's almost always stuck on there to hide over cleaning or to get a higher price from the American market. Still, made an interesting topic!
You will never soar like an eagle if you hang around with turkeys.....
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
3626 Posts
 Posted 06/27/2014  6:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pishpash to your friends list
It would be a unique listing "Toning Case"! Keep it in the garage until you decide what to do! I think you were sold a lemon. I will keep an eye on my coins just in case.
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
1570 Posts
 Posted 06/27/2014  7:06 pm  Show Profile   Check MetDet71's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add MetDet71 to your friends list
Yep, He ripped me off.... still, the next kilo of silver he gets from me might be a challenge for him to sell on.
You will never soar like an eagle if you hang around with turkeys.....
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Australia
16874 Posts
 Posted 06/27/2014  7:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list
It sounds to me like your problem is the "velvet"-and-plastic trays; it is probably outgassing something sulfurous. Do the plastic trays smell, well, "plasticy" or chemical-like? Something that reacts with silver that quickly should be detectable by nose. Does regular silver dip remove it? If it doesn't then it's outgassing something worse.

Franklin Mint back in its heyday in the 1970s shipped out their proof sets with plastic pseudo-velvet cases to display the coins in. Anyone who followed the instructions that came with the coins and placed their coins into the velvet-lined box unwittingly destroyed their coins, because the pseudo-velvet was made out of a plastic which outgassed something acidic. After a decade sitting under the couch, ugly toning on the silver coins was the least of the problems; the base-metal coins simply corroded away.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
1570 Posts
 Posted 06/28/2014  06:15 am  Show Profile   Check MetDet71's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add MetDet71 to your friends list
Sap, yes silver dip takes it straight off without any trouble at all. The trays do smell a little bit, sort of like an old book. I also think the trays are too blame, the 'velvet' is so thin that it was almost certainly applied to the plastic when it was flat so this would have involved some sort of adhesive. Included a few pics of the trays as they are probably a cheap copy and probably best avoided.



Storage-And-Toning.

Storage-And-Toning.

Storage-And-Toning.
You will never soar like an eagle if you hang around with turkeys.....
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
3626 Posts
 Posted 06/28/2014  11:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pishpash to your friends list
Trays directly to the bin. Perhaps wash the case out with something like Isopropyl alcohol and leave it open for a time. Get new trays, but put a coin in the case on it's own to make sure that whatever it was has gone. Then use the new trays.
Pillar of the Community
United States
5155 Posts
 Posted 06/30/2014  08:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ancientnoob to your friends list
Great stater! Bad tray. Toss the tray.
Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 06/30/2014  10:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list
I am very much inclined to agree with Sap. An acidic sulphurous environment could well be the problem.

The glue holding the velvet in place is out gassing, or there is some sort of pollutant (aggressive dust?) within the velvet.

I do not think the aluminum is the cause of the problem; the metal in this case should be preferentially affected before the coins should be.
That is despite the fact that in most cases, aluminum normally and very quickly develops a protective oxide layer over itself. That is why aluminum pots and pans survive.
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
1570 Posts
 Posted 06/30/2014  7:40 pm  Show Profile   Check MetDet71's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add MetDet71 to your friends list
@Nathan, I agree, most excellent Stater..... would look really good next to a certain coin with an extinct plant on the reverse Just message me with a price when your ready to part with it.
You will never soar like an eagle if you hang around with turkeys.....
Pillar of the Community
United States
567 Posts
 Posted 07/01/2014  7:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jcmworld to your friends list
I kept some silver in paper holders and had them in a cigar box for about 7 years, they got the most beautiful rainbow tone. I'm stuck in bed for the next few days at least (been here since friday) or I'd go get a photo. One's a Sulla, Venus Victrix obv. denarius, came out gorgeous.
Pillar of the Community
United States
4981 Posts
 Posted 07/02/2014  10:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chrsmat71 to your friends list
hope you get out of bed soon jcm!

i'll be darned, I would have never guessed that would tone the coins. there are all sorts of thing to worry about with ancient coin storage I wouldn't have thought would matter. I try to look at my coins frequently (which is fun anyway..right?) and keep an eye on them, just in case there is something going on.
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