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2012 Grey Cup Loonie Double Or PMD?

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 Posted 01/01/2015  6:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverDon to your friends list
Hard to see from these pics UncleLuc.
Can sort of see the bottom of the A in REGINA.
Need a nice close up shot. Maybe turn the coin
and shoot from the other direction to show the
bottom of the letters. That is the obverse of
the coin you show. Not sure how this doubling
could be PMD, it is likely Machine Doubling.
Edited by SilverDon
01/01/2015 6:17 pm
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Canada
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 Posted 01/01/2015  8:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add UncleLuc to your friends list
Yea sorry I just wanted to see any action before I pulled a better camera out
...better pics to follow shortly...
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 Posted 01/01/2015  9:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add UncleLuc to your friends list


2012-Grey-Cup-Loonie-Double-Or-PMD?

2012-Grey-Cup-Loonie-Double-Or-PMD?

2012-Grey-Cup-Loonie-Double-Or-PMD?

2012-Grey-Cup-Loonie-Double-Or-PMD?

2012-Grey-Cup-Loonie-Double-Or-PMD?

2012-Grey-Cup-Loonie-Double-Or-PMD?
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 Posted 01/01/2015  10:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverDon to your friends list
Nice doubling UncleLuc, especially on the date and portrait. Beads are a dead give away as well.

I have a similar one from 1969, Machine Doubling, nose chin and brow, as well as lettering and beads.

2012-Grey-Cup-Loonie-Double-Or-PMD?

2012-Grey-Cup-Loonie-Double-Or-PMD?

One from 2013 with Reverse Doubling.

2012-Grey-Cup-Loonie-Double-Or-PMD?

I like doubling.
Edited by SilverDon
01/01/2015 11:04 pm
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 Posted 01/01/2015  11:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add UncleLuc to your friends list
What is the difference between Machine Doubling and a double strike? Is my error caused by a loose die that slid a little? As I said I'm brand new to error and variety research and I'm not too sure in the values atributed to each type of error... what would these types of doubled coin ls be worth? And would mine be considered "heavy"? I know its no 1955 wheat, but the doubles seem pretty obvious.
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 Posted 01/02/2015  12:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add UncleLuc to your friends list
Well Silverdon..
I know of machine doubles and ejection errors from a loose die, but the weird thing about this coin is that the reverse suffers no doubling. It is actually a really clean reverse, with all the edges being very sharp..what would cause only the one side to be doubled? Possibly ejected and bouced off the top die? I'm confused... and are these errors vauable/popular? I pulled the loonie out of everyday pocket change jar and noticed the error by fluke just before I purchased something! Is this piece 2x2 worthy?
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 Posted 01/02/2015  12:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverDon to your friends list
I'm not sure of the mechanics, and note that one side doubling is the norm,
SPP the moderator is an expert on errors and could explain what happens inside the collar
between the planchet moving and the hammer and anvil dies meeting metal twice. There
must be a shift of the planchet or some other movement between strikes but how both
sides are not affected is too much for this novice.

My sense is that the anvil die is stable and the
hammer die shifts or rotates a small bit between strikes leaving the image doubled where the
hammer die meets metal and not doubled where the anvil die is stationary and the planchet has a successful double strike on one side.

Yes heck put it in a 2x2.
Edited by SilverDon
01/02/2015 12:49 pm
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 Posted 01/02/2015  4:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add UncleLuc to your friends list
Officially taken out of circulation. I still cant seem to find any pricing info on this piece or anyhting similar really...I know its no 1955 Wheat penny double but is this on the heavier side? I'm not a huge fan of error coins and would much rather sell or trade this piece to possibly fill out some countries I'm missing or maybe a new mint set or something...what could I price this loonie at and be fair? And whats an average premium paid on doubling errors?
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 Posted 01/02/2015  5:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverDon to your friends list
It is worth what someone will pay.
I have no reference point for a circulated 2012 Grey Cup Commem Dollar with doubled obverse.
Recent sets with doubled loonies go for a premium but they are not circulated.

If you have access to a local coin shop, look for a trade. Even among CCF members.
Edited by SilverDon
01/02/2015 5:33 pm
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 Posted 01/02/2015  5:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Altaira to your friends list
The doubling on your coin is flat and shelf-like, just common Machine Doubling. It is caused by the die moving during striking, flattening the already struck elements. It can happen in one or both sides.
Here is the page from error-ref: http://www.error-ref.com/push-doubling/

It's not a double strike. A double strike will look completely different. There's an example of it in the error-ref page above.
Also, C&C has a couple of nice photos on double struck coins: http://www.coinsandcanada.com/coins...everse&id=38
These ones are flip-over double struck: http://www.coinsandcanada.com/coins...bverse&id=39

The 1955 Wheat cent you're thinking about is a doubled die (you need the last d in doubled die, or else it will mean something different, I'm not going to cover that now). A coin die used to be hubbed more than once, and annealed before each hubbing. If the die is inserted in a different position in the next hubbing, a doubled die will result.
Read on how dies are made here: http://www.doubleddie.com/58201.html
And doubled dies here: http://www.doubleddie.com/58222.html
Here is coppercoins' thread about doubled dies vs Machine Doubling: http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/...PIC_ID=51410

I don't consider this kind of Machine Doubling as an error and this doesn't bring a premium.

I know that this is a lot to take in at once but you will have answers to what you're uncertain about.
Edited by Altaira
01/02/2015 5:54 pm
Forum Kid
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 Posted 01/02/2015  7:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Vancouver IslandCoinKid to your friends list
Yes it looks doubled to me! very nice example!
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 Posted 01/02/2015  7:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add UncleLuc to your friends list
When I looked into tge references and compared them to mine it looks more like hub than Machine Doubling....I might just have bad eyes but it seems like there 2 sets of numbers, letters and bust, and its not just the edges being shifted...when I look at the E and R of regina, it looks like there is notches between the two letters...I may be wrong tho...any thoughts?
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 Posted 01/02/2015  8:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Altaira to your friends list
Machine Doubling can happen on the entire coin. In hub doubling both elements are raised and rounded. Yours is flat and shelf-like. The "notches" you see aren't real notches. They are just flattened serifs, it is definitely flattened because the devices are smaller than normal. Evidence for Machine Doubling is all over your coin.

Modern Canadian dies are done with single squeeze hubbing, so a doubled die is no longer possible.
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 Posted 01/04/2015  10:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Fixguy to your friends list
SilverDon said it best. It's worth what someone will pay. On occasion I buy doubled coins but they have to stand out to me. In general people are selling them on ebay for about 150 bucks in a sealed set from various years. Considering there's a buy it now option I'd pay a small premium over issue price depending on scarcity and no more. Probably why their still for sale too! A single coin in circulated condition to me, No more than a few bucks over face if it's a nice machine double in the right place.
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