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 Replies: 52 / Views: 4,152 |
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Valued Member
Ireland
498 Posts |
As for karrlot.
Just for me.
Its wrong from the start,you are not treasurer its not your job,since the pastor allows you thats what happen,for me your pastor is also wrong for allowing you.
Its still the church money all from the jug,box or pouch,until you right the check or amount and accepted by the pastor or church.
The agreement cents to cents will still holds or current currency exchange rate for all circulating coins.
As for collectibles it all belongs to the church,for me you could ask if the pastor or the church if they allows to sell collectibles from the jug and what are their reason why they will allow it?
If not what are their reason why they wont sell collectible on collectors value and why?
Or they will going to sell other collectible in only metal value.
As to other treasurer in other church,just for me,their is onced an apostle who handle money matters alone by his lust of money just a bit he get small amount in the puoch which leads to sin for he frequent do it, upto the 1st and 2nd correction he still do it,that leads to his death he was cut out in the three of life as far as I know for now tha law was revised so the treasures will not fall to the same burden,that their should be three trusted and elected members among the church community with long good track records.
Its Church money they will going to used it to spread the good news and lessen the burden of its member by the spirit dwells in them in other forms or donation,before and during the great tribulation.
Still learning.
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Valued Member
United States
280 Posts |
I personally would pay the church graysheet bid value for the coin. I personally don't know where the line should be, but it's definitely not the same as searching the cash register at a retail job.
Here's thumper for everyone:
You goto church on Sunday (or whatever day you regularly go), the collection plate comes your way, you reach in your pocket and realize the only money you have is a $100 bill. Say you normally donate $10 to $20 per week (or whatever amount you normally donate) and EVERYONE knows how much you donate.
1. Do you donate the entire $100?
2. Do you "make change" in the collection basket?
3. Do you wait until next week and double your normal donation?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
834 Posts |
It is my opinion that the silver or any other coin of value you find you should not keep, take it to a dealer sell it and give the money for the sale of those coins to the church. We are all here but for a short time, believe me you will be reworded for your service.
Bruce.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
717 Posts |
gatzdon,
2. "make change" in the collection basket. This is the "accepted norm" in my Synagogue, takes place in front of the Rabbi & congregation, & nobody thinks anything negative of it. Anything that enables you to give, why not? I don't see the dilemma.
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Rest in Peace
United States
2884 Posts |
I have been watching this thread and find the whole thing quite fascinating. This is not, at least in my eyes, a temptation set forth by "God" but a simple moral dilemma that each and every one of us faces many, many times in our daily lives. My advice is to do what you and you alone feel is the right thing to do. Solicitation of this type of advice often allows one to justify a choice that they alone may not have made. I think that it is strictly an individual choice. I also think each of us, in our own way, know what feels right. We then, are also the only ones who have to live with our decisions and have no one else to blame. So I say do what you think you can live with. I believe you, as most of us do, if put in a similar circumstance already know what that is. Mike  |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
535 Posts |
No, CPChicago, I've not found out if the coin is real yet. That was kind of my reason for starting this post - I wanted to see if anyone had an opinion on it. I'm going to take it to a dealer this weekend and see if it weighs correctly and what he would offer for it if its real.
Jim,
I don't think your analogy of selling the car is the same. The car is donated as a car. I assume the intent was to sell the car with profits going to the church.
I honestly think this coin was donated as a dime. It was headed to the bank in the jug with no value coming back to the church.
However, I do like your analogy of a car because a car is big, its right out in the open, everyone sees what is going on with it. I think the car analogy would be the same if you said someone donated the car to be sold. A church member notices that the wheels are worth a lot of money. He relizes that buyers won't notice this or care about it. Can he go take the expensive wheels off, put cheap wheels on it, then keep the expensive wheels? Or, is it his duty as a church member to sell those wheels seperatly and ensure all of the money from the donated car gets to the church.
When he's laying on the ground in the parking lot, jacking up car and the person who donated the car comes up and asks what he's doing, does he say "Oh, I'm just taking these expensive ones for myself, and putting on the crappy ones before we sell it."
Yechi,
I think I do have to find the value of any coin I find and give that to the church. If its the right thing to do for the gold coin, then is the right thing to do for a silver coin too, right? Also it must be the right thing to do for a copper coin, as well as the chucky cheese token, the buttons, and the washer.
I can't really just arbitrarily pick a place to draw the line and say - if its over this amount it goes to the church, if its under this amount I get to keep it.
Along those lines - if I see someone digging in the church dumpster and getting out aluminum cans to sell, should I expect them to donate the proceeds?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2600 Posts |
karrlot, you got it. There is no gray area. If it belongs to the church, it is theirs at full value. Makes no difference be it a gold coin in a jug or cans in the garbage. The church may not receive full value for everything given, but don't let it be you who takes it. Mike is right about life being full of moral dilemmas and they are almost always in some form or fashion a temptation. Every church I know does good for their congregation and the community and they need every dollar they have to support these efforts. Thanks for a very thought provoking post, it has definitely inspired an interesting discourse. And, I know that you always intended to take good care of the church. You play a great devils advocate, though.  Jim |
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Valued Member
Ireland
498 Posts |
To gatzdon.
For me is wrong from the start.
As maybe other are aware,that others are preparing their donation before the time others dont.
And I thought their is something about the person going to the box and the box is not going to the person.
For maybe one reason is he will prepare before he go to the box
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Valued Member
Ireland
498 Posts |
Nice info yechi.
Before you use "making change" in donation "accepted norm",what do you call the stage on the first case that it happen.
Did anybody ask why?
What are the reasons of the congregation and the Rabbi that it is accepted?
Im very interested.
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Valued Member
Ireland
498 Posts |
Good reply jim1953.
Yes its the act that matters.
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Valued Member
Ireland
498 Posts |
Just for me. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundraising Some one is soliciting the person. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DonationA gift,no one is asking. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OfferingAs far as I know,all of this happen with in the service in the congregation. It is severe when the money is inside the box.why? A week past and members have toil their good hands in good job in good sweat of their eyebrow. The time for service is at hand and present himself, that he shoulder the yok for days and its fruit of its good labor, also on whats on his heart and drop the money in the box for its purpose, only the members are allowed to drop the money in the box. What is the purpose? for the church but also to God. Yes. God dont need the money in heaven. It is the heart and the act of the member that Gods want,just for me. Granting on thumper. Whole 100 with joyfull heart good. Whole 100 with bitter heart. for me eat sweet vegetable rather than bitter cow,dont donate number 3 on thumper. Making change.same tally of cash but different hearts on the box,for me,thats why its more severe |
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Valued Member
Ireland
498 Posts |
Good example karrlot on the box and on the garbage.
For the cutting line is the box and its purpose.
As for the cans on the garbage, the purpose inside the can already consume and serve its purpose,it is still church property.
As for the act on selling it?
As far as I know all good money that the member should put in the box not from stealing.
You can cut the economics if the 3 treasurer sorted and hande you the coins and paid for it.
If you found something valuable on those coins after you have paid for it,the cutting line is what is in your heart.
For me you placed yourself as a treasurer and maybe a heart of a collector.for me thats is tough call.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
535 Posts |
Church was cancelled on Sunday, so I ventured out in the ice storm (thankfully, we didn't get hit as hard as most) to the coin show with this coin. There were only about 6 or 8 dealers that made it and about twice that many customers. I took it to a guy who looked at. He got out a loup and looked at it and said "No, that's not real. I don't think its real, it doesn't look real. The only way to know for sure is to weigh it." I asked if he could weigh it for me. He was going to help another customer, and said "Yea, hang on. Its not going to weigh out."
After he got done with the other man, he got out his scale and weighed it. Then took out his book. "Hmm" he said. Then he took the coin off of the scale zeroed it out and weighed it again. "Hmm" he said again. "Well, its weighing correctly." He pulled the loup out and started looking at it again. "This thing is all pitted. There is no surface left on the coin. This thing is horrible! Its probably been burried in the ground or something. This is a terrible coin! Its weighing correctly, its gold, but its ugly!"
I explained where I got it and asked what I could sell it for or how much I should give the church for it. He told me that based on the condition, he would pay $90 for it and sell it for $95. He said "I'd just give the church $100 and call it even."
Wow. Granted its the first gold coin I've probably ever touched, but I didn't think it was that ugly.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
535 Posts |
Well that doesn't make sense - according to this site -
www . coinflation . com
The melt value is $98
Edited by karrlot
12/11/2007 11:49 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5953 Posts |
Last week Gold was around the $790 ish range yesterday the fed dropped interest rate and gold is now trading around $805. so last week $90 would have been a good offer this week you might get $95 but who know what gold spot will do today....
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Posted 12/06/2007 7:09 pm
