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1945 Walker Missing Designer's Initials

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Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 05/01/2015  11:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chancellor Sutler to your friends list
This coin was purchased raw this morning, in a ring type airtite. I use numismedia (NGC's site) for gauging prices, though I realize those listings are for certified coins. I have a relatively extensive collection, and have yet to buy a slabbed coin, or have one slabbed...with one exception. I had a Maryland dealer submit an 1850 Seated dollar a few yeas ago for me. That coin was subsequently sold, so I don't have a single slab in my safe. I keep many of the coins in some nice old Wayte Raymond brown albums.

I'm getting to the point where I may have to suck it up and join a TPG ... I have plenty of coins that are worthy, but have always figured that the cost of membership would buy a few more coins...like this one. It hasn't really mattered, since I do more buying than selling.

The bulk of the seller's listings are lots of blank planchets, minor off center errors and the like. Its always hard to figure out where these accumulations come from, or who is selling them. There are a couple more half dollars that may bear closer scrutiny as well. They may be varieties, or maybe not, but I'm going to have a look.

Chance
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 Posted 05/01/2015  12:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chancellor Sutler to your friends list
I didn't see anything else that jumped out at me....but here's a picture of the obverse of the 45-P. I don't know if there are any diagnostics for the obverse or not, but never did show you the obverse.

Chance

1945-Walker-Missing-Designer's-Initials
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 Posted 05/01/2015  12:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list
Wait until you have 8 surefire candidates - that's the most cost-effective membership level in view of the free submissions. This one is absolutely one of them.
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 Posted 05/01/2015  12:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chancellor Sutler to your friends list
I probably have enough to do that already ... but it'll sure screw up my 7070. I'll have too many holes that I already filled with the best coin I could afford...or that I lucked into. I have put together a really nice type set, with entries like a high grade 1880 Shield nickel, MS 1829 Half Dime, a MS 1843 seated half...and numerous others.

Chance
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 Posted 05/01/2015  12:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chancellor Sutler to your friends list
By the way ... PCGS has only graded 3 of these at 64 ... none higher.

Chance
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 Posted 05/01/2015  1:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chancellor Sutler to your friends list
SsuperDave ... Check your privte email. I sent you something that could be even more fun than this.

Chance
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 Posted 05/01/2015  1:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list

Quote:
Look very, very closely at that area for signs of deliberate removal.

Considering the initials are incuse it would be rather difficult to hide that kind of an alteration. (deeper hole in the coin, disruption of the luster and flowlines.)

These missing initials are known for a few different dates. I'm surprised they don't show up mote often. Since the iitials are incused on the coin they have to be raisd on the die making them the highest thing on the die. You would think that most any polishing of the dies would remove them because they would be the first thing to be ground off the die.
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 Posted 05/01/2015  11:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chancellor Sutler to your friends list
I wonder how they did such a thorough job of culling these from production.....or is it one of those "middle years, so uncirculated examples just weren't saved in great numbers" ...


I noticed the other coin I mentioned at Heritage, was the same coin that SsuperDave referenced. It lost 500 dollars in 2 years ... I'd better hurry and dump it before its worthless.


Chance
Edited by Chancellor Sutler
05/01/2015 11:56 pm
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 Posted 05/02/2015  12:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list

Quote:
Considering the initials are incuse it would be rather difficult to hide that kind of an alteration.


Must you make so much sense all the time?

I'd have self-destructed years ago were it not for Conder.
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 Posted 05/04/2015  3:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chancellor Sutler to your friends list
Here's what arrived in the mail this morning. I think "gem" is a stretch. There are too many contact marks in my opinion, for it to be a "gem", if my interpretation of choice (MS-63) and gem (MS-65) is correct.

The flow lines are uninterrupted, and I think it's the FS-901 though.

Chance

1945-Walker-Missing-Designer's-Initials

1945-Walker-Missing-Designer's-Initials

1945-Walker-Missing-Designer's-Initials
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 Posted 05/05/2015  02:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chancellor Sutler to your friends list
I have finally taken time to really study this coin. I was looking for other die markers to try and make certain that this coin and the heritage one matched.

At the end of the sun ray that points toward Liberty's navel, there appears to be remnants of a die gouge (under heavy polishing lines) where the engraver apparently slipped when re-cutting the stripe detail in the flag. Both the heritage example and this coin have that attribute. There's also remnants of an earlier die clash that's been polished out below the motto "In God We Trust", again ... present on both coins.

The reason I wanted to look that closely, is because if you turn it at just the right angle to the light, a faint trace of the initials is evident .... IF you knew it was there and what it was supposed to look like, you can see it faintly. Looking closely at photos of the heritage specimen, you can see it manifest itself in the same way.

If that one is FS-901, so is mine. If it isn't, neither is mine.

The 2 coins were definitely struck with the same die pairing.

Chance
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 Posted 05/05/2015  04:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add koinpro to your friends list
This is FS-901. It was submitted to me by James Dupree of LA in 2007.



1945-Walker-Missing-Designer's-Initials

1945-Walker-Missing-Designer's-Initials
Edited by koinpro
05/05/2015 04:30 am
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 Posted 05/05/2015  04:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chancellor Sutler to your friends list
It's the same as this one. If a person knew what the monogram looked like, and knew where it was supposed to be,they'd be able to make out a shadow of it. If, OTOH, they didn't know, they'd never suspect anything was supposed to be there.

Good to see you here in the forum, Ken. Your reputation precedes you. I appreciate your input, as I do that of SsuperDave. He's a knowledgeable fellow and always willing to share. I wish I had the photography skills of either of you, but there's a limit to what once can do with an 89 dollar camera.

You know I've been looking for the flying eagle $20 clash for 2 years or more. That one you posted is just exceptional.

Chance
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 Posted 05/05/2015  11:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cascade to your friends list
Good score chance, you bagged a 12-point buck there regardless of gem status or not... And I must agree with the appreciation of Ken and all the wonderfully educational pics he's been on a tear showing us. I've learned a ton about errors and the processes of creating them in the last couple of weeks. Keep it up Ken, hope to see a crazy morgan or Trade dollar error soon
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 Posted 05/05/2015  12:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add koinpro to your friends list
Chance, Cascade and all, thank you!
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