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Progress Report And Thanks For Your Generous Sharing

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 Posted 07/23/2016  11:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list
I've done successful stacks at 20x with the cheap Chinese Z-Stage so I don't know what's going wrong. Have you tried half-steps? That will give you ~5um steps that should be perfectly fine with the 10x objective.

I suggest you do your stacks the old-fashioned way, ie watch your live view screen and adjust the Z-height until you see the smallest changes in the focus, and snap the shot. It's a bit more tedious, but you can make sure every critical feature is in sharp focus this way. Go through the whole vertical range, noting what goes into and out of focus as you move vertically. This will give you an idea of how sensitive you need to be.
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 Posted 07/23/2016  11:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add austrokiwi to your friends list
I was also wondering if the micrometer head adjustment is too fiddly. Would attaching a large diameter disk( perhaps even a circular protractor) to the screw handle make it easier to make fine adjustments?
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 Posted 07/23/2016  11:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list
I think the micrometer is probably OK, but there may be play in other parts of the setup that cause "missing" parts of the stack. Doing it manually while in Live View will show this very quickly if it's happening.
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 Posted 07/23/2016  5:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add lrbguy to your friends list
Gentlemen, I am truly grateful for the advice, challenges and assistance, and I don't mean to disappoint you, but you are moving too fast for me. I am a methodical person who does what I can in a step by step fashion. My first priority has been getting familiar with the lenses I have acquired. The second priority has been to study the effects of close LED lighting. From my end, all the testing and examples up to now have served these two needs. The next agenda item you suggested for me was vibration stabilization, for which I may have a solution that I cannot yet implement. Now I need to attend to the accuracy of the movements for fine measured steps in the stacking routine.

In each of these stages special adaptations to equipment has been an issue that needs to be solved as we go. I am still waiting for the arrival of the lens reverser you suggested to me, which was not in my PO Box when I checked this A.M. but apparently is in the box now. For the lighting I had to take some time to fashion the ppb diffuser (without instructions - I have never tried to cut a ping pong ball before). For the stabilization block I still need to find some steel plates.

So far the fixes have been rather simple for me to devise. However, fixing the mechanical advance problem is at another level entirely. At this point I have been dependent upon the focusing controls of a microscope base unit to provide the vertical stacking steps. It is obviously not up to par, but it is the best I can do for now. I have a z-stage unit, and I can use it as a stage block, but I cannot yet use it for its intended purpose. I have not devised a way to mount or anchor the z-stage unit so that it moves ONLY in the vertical direction intended when I attempt to turn the micrometer handle. Until I figure out how to devise a stable base, I cannot do the kind of testing you are taking for granted.

Ray, you say that you are able to use the z-stage with a 20x lens and get a clean result. How? What keeps the stage from rotating or shifting in the x-y plane when you touch it, let alone attempt to rotate the handle?


Edited by lrbguy
07/23/2016 5:56 pm
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 Posted 07/24/2016  12:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list

Quote:
Ray, you say that you are able to use the z-stage with a 20x lens and get a clean result. How? What keeps the stage from rotating or shifting in the x-y plane when you touch it, let alone attempt to rotate the handle?


Mine is taped to my stage plate with thin double-stick tape. This is not perfect, but is stable enough to do 20x stacks with ~5um steps. I think the double-stick tape adds a little dampening to the system as well.
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 Posted 07/24/2016  8:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add lrbguy to your friends list
Thank you Ray. Today I picked up another plate that I will be using to mount the z-stage. I like the idea of using a double sided tape so I can remove the delicate z-stage when I wish. But I learned that there are many types of double sided tape, one of which is called "mounting tape." The package has a warning, "This is a permanent tape and may cause damage if removed." Since this particular tape is good for up to a 15 pound load, I purchased it. But before I use it, I want to make sure I am not making the wrong choice.

Is this what you are recommending: 3M Scotch outdoor mounting tape, holds 15 pounds. Works with metals.

Is there something that can be removed with less danger to the delicate z-stage?
Edited by lrbguy
07/24/2016 10:09 pm
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 Posted 07/24/2016  11:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list
The 3M outdoor mounting tape is too thick and too flexible IMO for this application. You might get by with it if you stuck down the entire surface of the Z-stage, but then it would be very tough to remove.

If your Z-stage is like mine, it has 4 raised areas on the bottom (around the screw mounting holes. I use regular Scotch double-stick tape, which is just a little thicker than their single-sided tape. Four pieces, one on each of the raised corner areas, makes the Z-stage very stable. It's pretty easy to remove as well.
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 Posted 07/27/2016  6:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add lrbguy to your friends list
Thanks again, Ray. On Sunday I was able to pick up the kind of tape you recommended, and did a temporary mount of the z-stage to a new plate for it. I have an idea for a more permanent solution, about which I will share if it proves to be useful. For now, the light weight tape is getting the job done.

I am honing in on weaknesses in my stacking technique, but running into snags. In a test Sunday I was able to use the z-stage alone to step the focus of the test coin (Balbinus antoninianus). Since I wanted easily recognizable images for this initial run, I used an M5 Nikon objective lens with the bellows setup. For the first test I did not use a light diffuser.

For the shooting I used the Live View/ EFSC hookup, alternating between normal and magnified views for each shot. My interval was each marked striation on the micrometer dial, and I stepped entirely around the dial twice in one continuous succession. The actual limits of the focal range for this coin were reached within 70 steps. Prior to this I had been letting the right to left progression of the focus determine when to start and stop a stack. However, that was not consistent in this new setup, so I have decided henceforth to define focus for a z-axis range (e.g. .5 mm) and sort from that.

Unfortunately I ran into a limitation in my computer/software for processing the 70 selected layers. CombineZ apparently limits processing to what it can handle for a given system memory size (16gb for my Win7system). Even when I selected only one stacking module (e.g. Pyramid DO) it choked at more than 30 images. As a workaround I selected 2 groups of 30 layers each and ran them under the "Pyramid Do" macro.

Here are the original output images (adjusted for color and file size; the composite of the first 30 steps is on the left:

Progress-Report-And-Thanks-For-Your-Generous-Sharing

The idea was to use these images as the source files for a composite stack. The mess below shows how that turned out (with error compounding)"


Progress-Report-And-Thanks-For-Your-Generous-Sharing


Apart from trying different software, not sure how to proceed from here.


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 Posted 07/27/2016  7:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list
CZP does a lot of image processing in addition to the actual stacking. Main issue I had with it (and why I stopped using it) was the added sharpening it does at the end and possible in interim stages. I could have written my own scripts but that's not my thing, so I went for Helicon and have never looked back.

One thing that might help is to increase the step size to 2 or even 3 increments (20-30um) on the micrometer. The M5 has NA 0.1, or nominal f/4 aperture, and you don't need such small step sizes for it. The calculators say 35um, so you should be able to reduce your stack depth by 2-3x, making it practical to use CZP in one shot.
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 Posted 07/28/2016  07:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add lrbguy to your friends list
CZP does say in their help section that you can alter certain features by doing little edits on each or any of the macros you want to use. But that is not my thing either, though I may try it to see if I can get a fix.
Helicon and Zerene are both tempting, but I am not yet at the point where I am ready for either of them. When I can make an informed choice, I will. Meanwhile I will try your suggestion, at least with the M5 (and probably the Plan4). But what about the 10x? What do the "calculators" say about step size with that? Austrokiwi seemed to suggest that the smaller the better. Maybe if I switch off a low pass filter or other functions in the macro de jure more will fit the stack size limits?

Along the lines of your suggestion I went through the stack of images and selected every third one. I tried it in CZP, and got output for two modes, but when I tried Pyramid DO it choked trying to build a high pass filter. Here is the DO Stack macro output:

Progress-Report-And-Thanks-For-Your-Generous-Sharing




Other updates I forgot to append last time:

I picked up the lens reverser from Raf Camera on Monday (Jul 25), but have not yet had a chance to test it out. Delivery time was quite good. It was purchased July 14, arrived in New York July 19, and was placed in my PO Box July 23. I expect to test it today.

1/4" Steel plates have been ordered for the stabilization base, as well as a set of 1/2" thick Sorbothane discs. (This combo will go in each corner of the frame between the frame and the granite block.) Now I just have to figure out where to put the Xerox machine.


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 Posted 07/28/2016  08:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list
That image looks pretty good. Just need to crop the aliased portions and it will be very presentable. Your lighting is excellent and gives good shadow presentation and surface feel.

A 10x NA 0.25 has nominal aperture of f1.8. The Extreme Macro calculator http://extreme-macro.co.uk/focus-stacking/ says to use 7um, while the Zerene table http://zerenesystems.com/cms/stacke...acromicrodof says 8.8um. For 10x NA 0.25 I use 6.25um steps.

Glad to hear that Raf came through again. I've always had a good buying experience with him.

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Edited by rmpsrpms
07/28/2016 08:18 am
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 Posted 07/28/2016  10:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add lrbguy to your friends list

Quote:
For 10x NA 0.25 I use 6.25um steps.



Hmmm. That sounds like something you would dial in digitally rather than rotate mechanically.

Stackshot with Helicon perhaps?

Thank you for the kind words about the image. I was worried that the lighting was not strong enough. The silver alloy doesn't look very "silvery" at this level.

I am going to try three tests today and will run some things past when they are ready.
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 Posted 07/28/2016  11:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list
I use a custom-built stacking rig, similar function to StackShot but using a Trinamic interface. This forces me to use Helicon, which supports both Trinamic and StackShot. Zerene does not support Trinamic.

With the Z-stage you are using, you can achieve average 5um steps with little difficulty, so you should be good.
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 Posted 07/28/2016  2:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add austrokiwi to your friends list
Irbguy: This is slightly off on a tangent: Here is a very good run down on Focus rails( for stacking):

Although you use a Z stage some of the principles may give you some insight:

https://lensvid.com/gear/choosing-t...photography/

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 Posted 07/28/2016  11:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add lrbguy to your friends list
Thanks for the link AK. I am familiar with the video series by Michael Erlewine, in fact I watched and downloaded links for the entire series a few months ago (almost 2 dozen half-hour videos). However, his interest is in wider view (panoramic) macro on a tripod, and nowhere in his entire series does he point the camera straight down or mount it on a copystand. Nonetheless, there is enough overlap in the basic principles he discusses that I got inspired to get in the digital macro game in the first place because of him. Things have come a LOOOOOOng way from the days of film.
Edited by lrbguy
07/29/2016 09:24 am
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