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Odds Of Winning Dispute With Buyer?

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Pillar of the Community
United States
1202 Posts
 Posted 08/20/2018  7:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add LibertyEagle20 to your friends list
Did he by and chance mention leaving you bad feedbackif you don't comply? If so, you can 100% win the case due to "feedback extortion." Even if he didn't, I would ask why he thinks the coin is fake. See if you can catch him saying anything shady and then talk with ebay.
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United States
1949 Posts
 Posted 08/20/2018  8:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jdmern to your friends list
This is a fairly common scam. I would highly suggest fighting this to the full extent of your ability. Here's why.

I had a buyer in Spain pull the exact same move you are talking about. Coin was ex-Baldwins of London, coin was exactly as described. Claimed counterfeit, ect. ect. I have a fairly extensive database of 'bad buyers' going back several years, and it allows me to go back and identify many of these repeat offenders, who frequently simply create new accounts. Sometimes they make it easy and leave the same name, but oftentimes, will have a different shipping name but same address. Sure enough, this buyer had ripped me off previously, filing a claim under another ebay account claiming that the package was empty when it arrived. As the tracking showed delivery, ebay sided with me on that case, but did give the buyer a 'courtesy refund' on their end. In this particular case, armed with that information, I proactively contacted ebay and explained the situation. The first rep could not have been more unhelpful, but sometimes that's the case. Called back and spoke with a rep who understood the situation. Knowing that my side was already documented with ebay, I was able to explain to the buyer that I have a no questions asked refund policy, but return shipping was their responsibility and all customs fees are the responsibility of the buyer. The buyer eventually sent the piece back, but when they tried to claim return postage costs and customs fees, they were unable to do so.

The most frustrating example of this I have ever dealt with was with a customer in Canada. He made a significant purchase, nearly 200 coins. However, he did not want to pay his customs charges, and instead of retrieving his package, opened up nearly 200 SNAD 'Does not match photo'. A month and half later, when I received the un-retrieved parcel back, I was finally able to get each of those cases removed. I ended up being on the phone with customer service for several hours that day, trying to figure out how to resolve such an extreme case of abuse of the system.

Sorry for the diatribe, but my main point is that when sellers allow these crooks to abuse the system, it enable them to perpetrate the same scheme over and over again. Out of principal, when this happens, I try to make sure I do everything in my power to keep it from happening to another seller.
Valued Member
United States
441 Posts
 Posted 08/20/2018  10:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mamastinky to your friends list
Thank you for taking the time to write that, jdmern. I am glad to know about such buyers before running into them.
Valued Member
Australia
145 Posts
 Posted 09/03/2018  10:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add serenitystan to your friends list
Refunds accepted-Buyer pays return postage..Yeah that's good for the seller. Not good for the buyer if they are not happy with the item especially if the item is expensive and needs registered,tracking + sign on delivery with insurance..When seller says seller pays for return postage that tells me there's a 99.99 chance the item is the YOU BEAUT BONZA...
Valued Member
United States
441 Posts
 Posted 09/04/2018  01:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mamastinky to your friends list

Quote:
When seller says seller pays for return postage that tells me there's a 99.99 chance the item is the YOU BEAUT BONZA...


No doubt! My logic exactly! Scammers never bother to take it that far (I feel fairly experienced with those guys )
Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts
 Posted 09/04/2018  03:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list

Quote:
Refunds accepted-Buyer pays return postage..Yeah that's good for the seller. Not good for the buyer if they are not happy with the item especially if the item is expensive and needs registered,tracking + sign on delivery with insurance..


This type of entitled attitude is exactly why so many sellers are turning away from ebay unless they are a managed account where they can do whatever they want.

If a buyer buys something and isn't happy they SHOULD pay for return shipping, scams are different but this idea that sellers should be shipping things all over and a buyer should get to return whatever for free is just absurd.

Pillar of the Community
United States
6130 Posts
 Posted 09/04/2018  09:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Finn235 to your friends list
Update: my hand unfortunately was forced in the matter. The buyer told Paypal the item was counterfeit, so they are automatically right and I am wrong. I did get the coin back at least, so I'm not completely in the hole. I'll see if the second highest bidder will accept a second chance offer, which will help me at least break even on all this nonsense.

To make things better... I had ANOTHER return: I listed my old collection backlog (consisting of the best few coins from all of my lots that didn't fit a set I was working on) and was thrilled when it sold for a whopping $600. Buyer opened a "not as described" return because they "couldn't make enough profit on the resale". That category forces me to pay for return shipping, or else refund them and let them keep it all.

Not my best week.
Valued Member
United States
441 Posts
 Posted 09/04/2018  10:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mamastinky to your friends list

Quote:
The buyer told Paypal the item was counterfeit, so they are automatically right and I am wrong.

What? That's it?! Is there a case open? They would let someone simply get away with that?

Quote:
To make things better... I had ANOTHER return:....
....Buyer opened a "not as described" return because they "couldn't make enough profit on the resale".

How could that qualify as "not as described?" How? That burns me up. I'm sorry to hear about all this.

Pillar of the Community
United States
8715 Posts
 Posted 09/04/2018  11:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverDollar2017 to your friends list
Unfortunately, 99.9% of the time, ebay takes the side of the buyer. They automatically assume the seller is wrong in most cases except with a non-paying buyer.
Pillar of the Community
United States
2925 Posts
 Posted 09/04/2018  12:42 pm  Show Profile   Check John77's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add John77 to your friends list

Quote:

nfortunately, 99.9% of the time, ebay takes the side of the buyer. They automatically assume the seller is wrong in most cases except with a non-paying buyer.


Yup. Even when the buyer has sent you threatening comments and meant to intimidate you as happened with me the one time when a buyer lied about the roll of circulated 1971 nickels he received from me. I hope and pray ebay eventually caught on to his scam and permabanned him.
CRH Nickeloholic. 1,600,000 nickels searched in eight years! Have found FOUR complete Jefferson sets!
Rest in Peace
10197 Posts
 Posted 09/04/2018  1:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Crazyb0 to your friends list
Why are you guys still selling on ebay? There are other avenues to use, less costly in fees and for me personally, much more pleasant and profitable. I currently sell about 95% of my sales on another similar site and fees are a whopping total of 3.5% INCLUDING PayPal! I've also consigned at the local auction when he does his on-line coin auction, although I usually buy as much as I sell... Is a wash! I used to cringe at the monthly "bill" from ebay, for what? I've ranted before how they arbitrarily change my listings to "help them sell", so yeah, just WHO do they promote, you the seller? I got tired of that after the third time... hadn't learned very well now did I?
Pillar of the Community
United States
6130 Posts
 Posted 09/04/2018  1:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Finn235 to your friends list
I do prefer to sell on here, but my current comfort zone of buying to flip for profit is in ancient coins, which only have a handful of active collectors on here - nowhere near enough to move an inventory of several hundred coins per month. Getting a hefty bill at the end of the month isn't fun, but I would rather pay 10% in fees than lose 25% due to lack of visibility.

Once my inventory has dried up, I'm probably going to take a sabbatical to cool off and avoid burnout on the hobby. I have four large numismatic projects that are complete-ish, and in need of a nice wordy educational thread
Pillar of the Community
United States
2925 Posts
 Posted 09/04/2018  2:46 pm  Show Profile   Check John77's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add John77 to your friends list

Quote:

Why are you guys still selling on ebay?

Because we're lazy.

In all seriousness, I have a bunch of other things occupying my time right now. Come the end of this month, things should return to "normal" and I'll look more in-depth into alternatives.
CRH Nickeloholic. 1,600,000 nickels searched in eight years! Have found FOUR complete Jefferson sets!
Edited by John77
09/04/2018 2:47 pm
Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts
 Posted 09/05/2018  12:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list

Quote:
Buyer opened a "not as described" return because they "couldn't make enough profit on the resale". That category forces me to pay for return shipping, or else refund them and let them keep it all.


If they put that in writing you should be able to win that one with a call to ebay
Pillar of the Community
United States
3402 Posts
 Posted 09/08/2018  3:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kopper Ken to your friends list
I don't sell now, I may start selling when I retire...but one sure thin is I will never sell on the 'bay.

KK
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