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 Replies: 21 / Views: 4,090 |
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Pillar of the Community
Germany
1238 Posts |
That coin was legal tender in Austria until the end of February 2002 by the way. But with a value of €0.0007 it was basically worthless and did not actually occur in circulation anyway ...
Christian
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Valued Member
Poland
392 Posts |
Quote:
That coin was legal tender in Austria until the end of February 2002 by the way. But with a value of #65533;0.0007 it was basically worthless and did not actually occur in circulation anyway ... Wow, very interesting info  chrisild, maybe you know some sites about it - with the pleasure I'll read about it  PS. Very nice coin  |
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Valued Member
Australia
432 Posts |
Chris, really?!?!? Sweet! I thought the Austrian's closed that little hole as soon as the Euro came in... if I remember, it was worth 1/7th of a Groschen, within the Schilling currency.
All other Rpf and RM denominations were demonetised however...
Chris, quick question; is there any suspected 'reason' for this, or was this just an Oversight? I've never been able to find any information to clarify if it was by design or error... :)
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Pillar of the Community
Spain
1361 Posts |
Is it still illegal to have these coins with the swasticas in germany?
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Valued Member
Poland
392 Posts |
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Is it still illegal to have these coins with the swasticas in germany? It was illegal? I've never heard about it...  If it was, I think that now it isn't illegal - of course if you don't use it to popularization Nazism/Fascism. |
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Pillar of the Community
Germany
1238 Posts |
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is there any suspected 'reason' for this, or was this just an Oversight? I've never been able to find any information to clarify if it was by design or error... :) Guess it was an oversight, or they just did not care. Due to its extremely low value, the 1 Groschen coin had practically been phased out long before the euro changeover. Not sure whether those 1 Reichspfennig coins had a value of 1 or 1/7 gr. - if the latter is correct (may well be so), their value and purchasing power would have been even lower. The date I mentioned (end Feb 2002) refers to the end of the dual circulation period, so yes, it was indeed due to the euro changeover. Seems this was a good opportunity to not only practically but also legally "do away" with them. In theory both 1 Rpf zinc types - with swastika (Nazi Germany 1940-45) and without swastika (Allied Occupation 1945-46) could have been used in Austria until then. Practically however ... Christian |
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Pillar of the Community
Germany
1238 Posts |
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maybe you know some sites about it Well, there is the Schön catalog ... lemme see whether I can paste that awfully long link here: http://books.google.com/books?id=Gi...nig%22+österreich+-ebay&source=bl&ots=i-B1YYpEZl&sig=fOfdo1XGSFqibpL4ferF0nI3Wdg&hl=de&ei=qBygSeCwM4aS_gaz7f3hCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=6&ct=result (Edit - Sorry, seems you need to copy/paste the link manually. Oh, and here is another page about the coin http://www.germanycash.de/reichsmar...ig-j369.html So yes zaggy, seems that 1/7 groschen is right.) Edited by chrisild
02/21/2009 10:31 am
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Pillar of the Community
Germany
1238 Posts |
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Is it still illegal to have these coins with the swasticas in germany? As DagonX wrote, in Germany it has always been perfectly legal to have such coins. Not sure about the GDR (East G.), and maybe there were some restrictions during the Allied Occupation (1945-49), but other than that, you can sell, buy and own them here. What is against the law is nazi propaganda - and that may, in the case of books or uniforms for example, be a difficult issue. But trust me, the nazi coins in my collection are perfectly OK there. Christian |
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New Member
 United States
31 Posts |
Edited by mohammad
02/22/2009 11:58 am
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Valued Member
Australia
432 Posts |
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and maybe there were some restrictions during the Allied Occupation (1945-49) Contrary to what a lot of people selling 'RARE THIRD REICH' coins on ebay, few restrictions were placed on existing coinage during this period; they were NOT rounded up due to the swastika or anything... the ONLY restrictions placed were GENERAL restrictions on Silver and Gold Coins and Silver, Gold and Platinum bars. These were, by order, to be surrendered at the local Reichsbank or Landeskassen; however by virtue of the fact that by 1950 more than 70% of the 'Third Reich' era Silver coins remained 'unaccounted for' and due the later half of the war, Reichsbank stocks of the coins were smelted, its quite obviuous very little was actually handed in! What is really interesting is that sometime around 49-50, the Bank deutscher Laender/Bundesbank actually started some sort of scheme to reclaim and exchange Reich and earlier silver coins. The coins reclaimed ended up being smelted and used for the 1951 2DM and 5DM coins... |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
677 Posts |
Zaggy,
That's very interesting. As I collect coins from WWII, those two coins would be an interesting addition, since they "used to be" WWII coins.
Are there any numbers showing how much of the 1951 silver coins had silver from Third Reich coins in them? I suppose that would probably be pretty difficult to determine?
Thanks to everyone who posted in this thread, and thanks to "mohammad" for starting it. It's been very informative. I will be doing a lot of "copy and paste" into my coin info notebook!
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Pillar of the Community
Germany
1238 Posts |
Quote:
What is really interesting is that sometime around 49-50, the Bank deutscher Laender/Bundesbank actually started some sort of scheme to reclaim and exchange Reich and earlier silver coins. The coins reclaimed ended up being smelted and used for the 1951 2DM and 5DM coins... Makes sense to me; I know that the Federal Republic had to buy much of the silver required for the 5 DM pieces from Mexico. But why not use other sources too ... Not sure about the 2 DM pieces; those were not silver. But I know that after 1958, those too were melted and used for other Cu-Ni pieces. Also, the GDR (East G.) regularly melted parts of the silver collector coins and used the silver for newer issues. Those figures are known however. Christian |
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Valued Member
Australia
432 Posts |
First, Chris you're right! the 1951 2DM's were Cupro-Nickel - being focused primarily on Third Reich, I'm always messing up the fact the 'new' 2DM's WEREN'T Silver!
Well if you want to get REALLY technical, SOME of the 1951 5DM were made from the Third Reich 2DM and 5RM... Some of the Third Reich 2 and 5RM were made from the Weimar 1M, 2M, 3M and 5M. Some of the Weimar 1M, 2M, 3M & 5M were made from the Kaiserreich era 20Pf (there was one (or two?) silver ones), 50Pf(+1/2M), 1M, 2M, 3M, 5M... And before that, I'm sure some of the earlier German State and HRE silver was recovered..
I suspect that some of the Modern German Silver coins are probably made from Silver recovered from DM's!
Its a simple fact that when coins are demonetised, they're recovered and the materials used again. Maybe this reuse is for weapons (as in the case of Nickel, Alpha-Bronze and Aluminium-Bronze in WW2), maybe to recover precious metals (as many countries did with their gold coins when material values exceeded face) or maybe just to make the next generation of coin (happens all the time with Au, Ag, Cu, Al, Ni, Zn, Fe etc, in pretty much every country of the world!).
In the case of German coinage, I know a lot of the recovery from the formation of the Empire in 1871 through to early 1944, was done by Degussa (an abbreviation of Deutsche Gold und Silber-Scheideanstalt, located in Frankfurt am Main); whether Degussa participated in the early BdL/BRD recovery, I have not yet discovered...
Schmidty: I have no definitive figures on ANY of the Silver recoveries with the exception of some BALLPARK figures for the late 1930's recovery of Weimar silver types.
THUS in summing up...
Your 5DM may very well have lived many lives before becoming that 5DM... Perhaps it used to be a 2 Reichsmark and before that a 3 Reichsmark and before that a DREI MARK and before that a 50Pfg and before that some of Thaler and before that some sort of HRE coin... By this stage, we could easily be back in the 15th Century. It may have an even more diverse history if the coin originated in another country (maybe the country was invaded or trade took the coin away from home), but the simple fact is, the precious metal in any coin may have been in circulation for hundreds or years!
Cool, huh?
Edited by Zaggy
02/25/2009 12:22 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Germany
1238 Posts |
Yes, re-using old coins to make new ones is common not only around here. (In fact, that is why at the end of the "DM cash years", all the old pieces were decoined first: Transporting actual coins would have been pretty expensive ...) Must admit that I like coins with a "visible past" much better - the same coin that I hold in my hand today has gone through many hands before. But even the idea that the silver in a €10 commem may have been in another coin before is cool!
Christian
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Valued Member
Australia
432 Posts |
Ah, its the €10 that are Silver! Not being into €URO I couldnt for the life of me remember which ones are made of what; else I would have included that in my rant above :)
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Replies: 21 / Views: 4,090 |
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Posted 02/20/2009 6:53 pm
