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 Replies: 43 / Views: 3,693 |
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Valued Member
 United States
61 Posts |
Metalman, this 1921 Morgans are rarer when it comes to toning. I believe the 1921 morgans have a slight different metal content or something and that's why there aren't many toned 1921. The colors on your coin are very hard to see, it looks like it was scanned or something. If this is the way it looks in hand I would say it's AT.  Here is a beautiful toned 1921 morgan sold by APMEXhttp://i483.photobucket.com/albums/...t=1238278868 |
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Valued Member
United States
61 Posts |
Edited by simplycolors
03/28/2009 9:28 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
The coin was photographed , its all in the lighting . Here is another of the same coin reverse with different lighting . so whats the point of this exercise ? well In most cases its nearly impossible to tell NT from AT from a photograph , the lighting and camera angle change everything , its possible for the colors to be enhanced , the exposure changed and you get an entirely different effect on the coin . It falls into the same class as grading a coin from a picture we end up grading the picture not the coin, toning to me is the same we end up seeing what the photograhper wants us to see and that is not always entirely accurate .  |
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Valued Member
United States
61 Posts |
Very true Metalman, this is why I said that with a picture it is hard to tell unless you have it in hand. Makes a big difference. If I buy a coin/s online, it has to be a very high resolution picture with a very professional and experienced seller/dealer. If you were selling this coin I would probably buy it simply because It is raw, inexpensive and if it is NT then I would come out winning. I forgot to add that it is possible to identify an AT coin if the job that was done to the coin was bad. It is possible at times to tell when a coin is NT as well. Now, there is times when a coin was AT by a coin Doc. and the job was so well done that when you get the coin in hand you get very disappointed but this is why we need to learn and find more ways in identifying such coins.  http://i483.photobucket.com/albums/...t=1238290820Edited by simplycolors
03/28/2009 9:40 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
while I took your comment in context !
The only coins forsale are listed in the sell forum
this is the learning and teaching part of the forum no coins posted here are ever forsale .
Keep in mind that you also need 50 quality posts with no less than 14 days on the forum to buy or sell here.
The coin I posted is AT and has already been talked about here in the past .
I posted the photo's and the photographic information to illustrate how easy it is to change the appearance of a coin with very simple lighting changes .
Toned coins on the whole are controversial , especially with people who use torches and chemicals to alter coins ,there can be only one reason for such activity and that is to rip off the unsuspecting under educated or new collector who is sucked in by the premium for such coins .
Its our goal here to bring to the attention of those who read threads like this that the many unscrupulous people who AT coins are among the worst that this hobby produces and are detrimental to the hobby as a whole .
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Valued Member
United States
61 Posts |
I am not trying to sell anything so why are you bringing this subject up? Part of my goal is to teach people about what I have learned also which is AT and NT coins. When I said "I would buy the coin" was an example of "why" I would by such a coin and never made any offer. Of course I too like to learn more as I go with other peoples advices and experience on how they identify such coins to be either NT or AT. If there was "no way" of telling a coin from real or altered why would anybody collect them? Did you know that PCGS bags thousands of NT coins because they don't believe they are natural. Then again, they Certify many that are AT and they are supposed to be the professionals. Sometimes I feel as if I know more than them at least in this kind of the collecting hobby. The point is that we here need to learn and find ways to better authenticate this kind of coins. This coins when naturally toned are some of the worlds most attractive coins if you would ask me. I personally stayed collecting raw rainbow toned coins because the TCG's bag many because they don't know NT from AT. Oh and another thing, torching a coin is something I rarely do but do when I am really stuck on a specific coin and this works 95% of the times so I won't stop doing this until a better way is found. http://i483.photobucket.com/albums/...t=1238294603 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
and I said I took the comment in context , read my post .
but I'm not limited when it comes to citing the forum rules .
I know that if thousands of AT coins are encapsulated that the practice of doctoring coins is out of hand .
I also know that the purpose of those altered coins is to capitalise financially from those who are not knowledgeable enough or to new to the hobby to know whats up , which is the reason for the warnings concerning torched ,cooked, fried, chemically gassed, and other types of doctoring (alterations) which occur within the toned coin collectors world .
as long as you continue to use a torch to enhance the toning on coins you can expect to be part of the warning to the collectors here and that will not stop until the practice of torching coins stops .
There cannot be to much warning posted on the subject .
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Valued Member
United States
61 Posts |
See Metalman, I don't alter coins in anyway to sell that's where you're thinking wrong. This is only a method I " myself" to be useful to when I want to see if a coin is or is not naturally toned. As soon as the torch gets real close to the coin if it's natural the toning seems to run away from the flame and if it isn't then it does not change that's it. I only use this method when it is very hard for me to tell and if the coins is not very expensive! The good thing is that I don't have to use this method a lot but when I have to I will use it as it is very accurate. On my expensive coins I have bought I don't need to do this as I don't buy such coins from ebay or other online services. There is plenty of people here in Florida selling coins in very nice and original shape and color to be altering anything. Lots of Coin Doctors come from this midwest sides of the country. I have found Docs who alter coins so good and they do this from their homes in Ohio. This Docs Alter and even get them Certified without a problem and then sell them for a lot of money. Metalman, if you think I alter my coins to sell them you are very wrong in every way. I love collecting authentic coins and only because I do this testing on some coins as for an experimental study does not make me a coin doctor. I will never sell a AT and if I did then it will be described as such. I love and enjoy this hobby as well as my guns but for a little bit of money, I will not rip anybody off as this is not how I was raised to be. I don't think I would be here warning and chatting to others about this matter. Here is one of my expensive three-cent pieces I think is not so NT but I will not submit such a test to because of the cost, condition, rarity and beauty of the coin. This is pretty much what the coin looks like in hand as well. http://i483.photobucket.com/albums/...t=1238343803http://i483.photobucket.com/albums/...t=1238343872 |
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
Quote:
Here is one of my expensive three-cent pieces I think is not so NT but I will not submit such a test to because of the cost, condition, rarity and beauty of the coin. This is pretty much what the coin looks like in hand as well.
I'd interpret (note my use of verbiage) that one as "natural under odd conditions" toning. I don't think a knowledgeable doctor would inflict such irregular toning on a coin, and I've seen similar patterns on 3CS's in the past. I'd offer to take that unsatisfactory coin off your hands, but I doubt I could afford it, even AT.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
So what do you label the coin after it has been tested by the torch heat ?
is it labeled as NT enhanced ? I also collect gemstones and heating enhancement is also done to the stones whether it be stones or coins once the surface has been altered by heat it should not be lableded as natural.
That is my point which seems to be being missed no matter how the alteration occurs or why the coin still is not in the state it was prior to that alteration .
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Valued Member
United States
61 Posts |
Superdave, I didn't spend $1000's but I did spend $800. on it. I just can't figure out if it is altered in color or not. Metalman, read what I wrote earlier I said I did not do the torch test because of the condition of the coin, the beauty of it and because it cost me some money. I've said earlier that I don't do tests like that on just any coins. I only perform such tests on inexpensive coins where I can't figure it out or have my doubts.
I don't collect gemstones or rocks but everybody has their likings. I do know that this coin has enhanced somewhat in color since the time I bought it and this was about 6 years ago. Maybe Metalman knowing so much on toning can help me out here.
I must add to this. SuperDave, you have no idea what a coin doctor would do to a nice piece just to get a nice premium price. Some Docs just do a very good job at hiding imperfections by AT a coin.
Edited by simplycolors
03/29/2009 8:36 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
Quote:
Um, Simplycolors, isn't that what you have found here with this family? While I know your intentions may be honorable regarding your toned coin passion, CCF pretty much covers anything you will need. I wish you success in your endeavor to create your own site, but I don't think the staff and/or owners here will appreciate links to what could be described as a direct competitor in the future.
I agree with this completely. There are way to many that use this web site to promote their own. I really wouldn't worry to much though. As a general rule they all just fade away. People go there, look it over, comment on how great it is, never go back so it sits there growing AT or would that be NT? |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
Quote:
I never said " oh go test it out yourself ". Found this method to be very helpful to me when I learned it from a very experienced collector and I will keep the method going until maybe you or another person with the experience or professionalism teaches or finds something better.
Obviously you either do not have children, have never been around them nor have any experience with them. If you had you would know that almost every child learns a lot by immitating adults. If you say use a torch to test a coin, kids are not aware of exactly what you mean and may well try this without adult supervision. I know what you mean but be aware that there may well be numerous younger individuals reading these statements. At one time being a professor in a junior college I found that even at that age, you must really be carefull of what you say. You never have to say things like go test it yourself. They usually do. To many adults seam to think that when they say something that everyone of all ages knows exactly what they mean. |
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Valued Member
United States
61 Posts |
justcarl, thanks for been "on my side". Since the beginning nothing good has been said towards me from you and I don't mind that. I take it all in and accept it. I don't want anybody to be hurt by performing such tests but I also didn't know their were little kids here. I just thought there were smart adults here who had a knowledge of knowing what to and what not to do. Don't worry though, there are others who don't like what I do to "my" cheap coins in order to find out if they are AT or NT. By the way, I am 29 years old and I'm a father of 3 and love them to death. Not that this concerns you but it is true. I also agree with you that maybe I shouldn't be saying what I have learned because it obviously hurts some peoples knowledge in some way or another. I am a new collector of only some years and I guess you are more experienced than me. If so, can you tell me how to identify an AT to a NT one please? I also agree with you that my site might not get any popularity but that does not bother me at all and I can laugh at it. I might just do it because I like it and want to keep on doing it. The fact is that I might not even go through with it. Even so, maybe you don't know how to make or run a site but I don't care about that. Some people just want to make others look bad other than share their knowledge and help them on what's best. Another thing, like I told the other one. If I was to sell a coin which I thought was AT I would describe it as such. It just shows how many people read what I write. Thanks again people for liking me and reading what I write. Anyone else has a smart question or remarks that might help me in my researches on torching coins? Or does anyone else want to know if I have a dog or cat that they might want to judge me by? Who knows, you might make me laugh out loud too. http://s483.photobucket.com/albums/...xample31.jpgI love this place  Edited by simplycolors
03/30/2009 8:24 pm
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Valued Member
United States
61 Posts |
I guess some people got a little afraid or something since nobody want to say anything or even place a picture. Maybe none of the above. Maybe, people really don't know how to identify coins of this nature or people just don't want to judge me as others have. Come on kids, this does not bother me at all.
I'll tell you what, If you don't want to ask or judge me like others have above then post a question on AT or NT. Or load a picture if you have doubts about it or want comments on it. I would like to learn more and say what I have learned from my experience. I promise I won't say that you probably don't have any kids because that's not what this forum is about.
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Replies: 43 / Views: 3,693 |
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Posted 03/28/2009 7:00 pm
