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What Grade Would You Give This 1855 Large Cent?

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Valued Member
Canada
409 Posts
 Posted 01/26/2024  8:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Double J to your friends list
Confused by the details comment. Does that mean the it was cleaned like in a deliberate fashion? Opposed to cleaning the whole coin?
Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts
 Posted 01/26/2024  9:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list
Will those who suggest cleaning please be more specific.
Edited by Coinfrog
01/26/2024 9:05 pm
Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts
 Posted 01/26/2024  9:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list
It's most definitely cleaned. You don't see bright red copper on a low VF large cent.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
Bedrock of the Community
United States
36844 Posts
 Posted 01/26/2024  9:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add IndianGoldEagle to your friends list

Quote:
Will those who suggest cleaning please be more specific.


Bright color on a VF coin, has the look of either being plated or polished. Not a natural color.
Valued Member
Canada
409 Posts
 Posted 01/26/2024  9:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Double J to your friends list
I still don't understand. If polished why just those sections? I'd think the opposite that the high points would be that way and the low points dark?
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United States
74846 Posts
 Posted 01/26/2024  10:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Errers and Varietys to your friends list
VF.
Errers and Varietys.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
36844 Posts
 Posted 01/26/2024  11:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add IndianGoldEagle to your friends list
It was cleaned or altered a number of years ago. The bright color is in the protected areas.
Valued Member
Canada
409 Posts
 Posted 01/26/2024  11:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Double J to your friends list
I still don't understand and that kinda conflicts with what others are saying. If the protected areas are originally luster then why would one say you wouldn't see red on a vf coin? I don't have issues when more experienced folks explain things to me but so far nothing has made sense to me about this coin except consistency of the grade.
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United States
12057 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2024  12:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list
Copper darkens naturally with circulation and wear as handling removes the bright layer of shiny red, interactions with hand oils and environment (atmosphere) transition it from red, to red-brown, to brown.

The only time you will ever see this bright red splotch color pattern on a late date US Large Cent below AU is if the coin has been chemically cleaned, such as by dipping or copper polish. It is highly unnatural and almost always indicative of altered surfaces. It can also occur if the coin was plated with something or had plating removed.

The "halo effects" around the stars, date, around the devices and bust, etc. are dead giveaways. It is difficult to remove whatever substance was used to clean the coin from the protected areas, so it tends to remain there, preventing natural retoning from occurring over time.

Consensus is that this is a low VF coin with altered surfaces, so I'm not sure what exactly isn't clear.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
Edited by paralyse
01/27/2024 12:05 am
Valued Member
Canada
409 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2024  12:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Double J to your friends list
With all do respect, that's really the first explanation. So is that what detailed means? Secondly dipping and cleaning can often infer different things to different people and my take away is dipped. I can look at the coin under a loupe however at the moment I don't see any signs from any form of friction. Lastly not sure what you mean consensus. Seemed like some said it was VF 30 specifically some low and some just vf.

So if something was clear then I guess it must bother you being redundant. Not to single out anyone either but it seems I wasn't the only one maybe suggestioning more specifics.
Pillar of the Community
United States
894 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2024  09:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add adam126402 to your friends list
Double J, the consensus is that the coin was cleaned at some point in time, regardless of the grade. Anything, either chemically or mechanically, that removes mental is considered cleaning. Dipping in a chemical like eZest removes surface metal and brightens coins by removing the old metal surface layer exposing fresh bright metal. Chemicals don't leave evidence of friction. Using a pencil eraser, Brillo pad, steel wool, or a polishing wheel all remove metal via friction

In regard to people calling it "details," yes that is in reference to the cleaning. There are many things that can "details" a coin. Some of those things are cleaning, post mint damage from circulation, tooling, artificial toning, etc.

A coin that is "details" has less value in the market place.
Valued Member
Canada
409 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2024  09:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Double J to your friends list
I think yes, in general however there is much debate over dipping. Thus it was important that I find out what the case was for this coin in that regard and second be aware of things people do in the future when I purchase. Fortunately for me in majority of cases I know I'm not qualified to grade, determine cleaning methods and counterfeits... so it is rare I ever buy over bullion value or in this cas AG value. So this isn't about me concerned if I got ripped off but becoming better at figuring these things out for myself.
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United States
94367 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2024  10:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list
I have to start enlarging my phone pics before opening my mouth!
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18700 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2024  11:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list
adam126402 gave the best explanation to answer your question along with the others. the bottom line is that you will never see a copper coin below AU, sometimes XF45 that has any original copper showing through. thats a dead giveaway. cleaning using any solution will not leave any friction nor scratches or marks or anything on the coin.
Valued Member
Canada
409 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2024  11:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Double J to your friends list
Well that's fine but I think that two people gave me detailed explanations that helped me. Which I thought was the point of the forum. However, these answers did not come until much later and I believe have justified my position of asking deeper questions. I think some, not all, have used language that implies otherwise. I have been professional, specific and there have been optics of a mob mentality to which I'm not sure why. This forum overall has been incredibly kind and generous to me and I know I do not bring much back to the table aside from sharing some fun finds. I just like to be 'written' the way I have communicated back. I digress. My questions have been answered. Thank all for the help. At least I'm better at this after my post than before it and I guess that's what is important.
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