Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
Specializing in Modern Numismatics Royal Estate Auctions - $1 Coin AuctionsJoin Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors 300,000 items to help build your collection! Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes.








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

1964-D Jefferson Nickel With Clipped Planchet.

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
First Page  Showing last 15 replies.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 18 / Views: 1,016Next Topic Page 2 of 2
Pillar of the Community
United States
3535 Posts
 Posted 05/20/2024  4:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Tacc to your friends list
Looks good and obvious Blakesley effect showing.
Moderator
Learn More...
United States
190060 Posts
Moderator
Learn More...
United States
98440 Posts
Bedrock of the Community
United States
75183 Posts
 Posted 05/20/2024  5:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Errers and Varietys to your friends list
Nice Clipped Planchet!
Errers and Varietys.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts
 Posted 05/20/2024  5:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list
Looks good, congrats!
Bedrock of the Community
Learn More...
United States
10601 Posts
 Posted 05/20/2024  10:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Marv65 to your friends list
Looks good to me too!
Valued Member
United States
78 Posts
 Posted 05/21/2024  10:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tyr4nt to your friends list
Just a question - is it odd that there is a pinch mark on the obverse & reverse 180* out from the clipped part? Is it a possibility that this coin was in a vise of some kind and the clipped portion was removed post-minting?
Pillar of the Community
United States
3535 Posts
 Posted 05/21/2024  12:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Tacc to your friends list

Quote:
- is it odd that there is a pinch mark on the obverse & reverse 180* out from the clipped part?

..that's the Blakesley Effect mentioned above.
Valued Member
United States
78 Posts
 Posted 05/21/2024  12:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tyr4nt to your friends list

Quote:
..that's the Blakesley Effect mentioned above.
TIL

I used these resources:
error-ref.com/blanking-and-cutting-errors/
error-ref.com/_curved_clips_/

so... If I understand what this site is saying (and I wish they had some diagrams at each bullet point) the clip's absence of material causes the surface pressure of the strike to be uneven in tons/sq-in across the die face. That imbalance in striking pressure results in a softening of the strike opposite the hole.

The power of the strike is lost to the deficit area. Sort of like how if you have an open differential, power goes to spin the wheel with the least resistance? Am I understanding this correctly?

It would be super cool to see a finite element analysis / force map of a normal strike and a clipped planchet strike. If anyone has details hit me please. I've subbed to this thread.
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
United States
7174 Posts
 Posted 05/21/2024  2:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cujohn to your friends list

Quote:
why does it appear like it is at an angle?
I've noticed this too on some pictures. I think they are taken setting in the window of a black 2X2, that creates an optical illusion.
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
United States
7174 Posts
 Posted 05/21/2024  2:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cujohn to your friends list

Quote:
Just a question - is it odd that there is a pinch mark on the obverse & reverse 180* out from the clipped part? Is it a possibility that this coin was in a vise of some kind and the clipped portion was removed post-minting?
The Blakesley effect is produced when the blank is turned in the upsetting mill. That's when the rim is put on the edge, Kind of hard to explain. There are 2 rolling pins 180degress apart rolling the rim on, when one of the pins hits the clip, that moves the blank towards that pin and away from the other one. With no pressure the rim doesn't get formed at the Blakesley's spot.
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
United States
6597 Posts
 Posted 05/21/2024  5:41 pm  Show Profile   Check Brandmeister's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Brandmeister to your friends list
Old timey upset mill:
cLIlTetETG0


Philly Mint:
mX73eThpM2k


I find it easier to first imagine the upset mill as two grooved rails. They move in opposite directions and are slightly closer to the exit than the entrance. The blank drops between them and the proto-rim is squeezed by the rolling motion as the blank moves towards the exit.

In reality, the upset mill is a fixed outer rim. The inner rim is motorized and turning. The effect is the same—the blank rolls between the grooved rails, and as the space between the rails slightly decreases, the proto-rim is pushed up on the edge of the blank: Viola, a planchet.

As John said, the Blakesley effect happens because every time the gap rolls around, the blank is narrower than the rail distance. So instead of a proto-rim getting shoved up on the opposite side, the blank simply moves sideways between the rails until it rotates past the missing metal again.

This is all before striking. Now the coin gets struck. The metal flow towards the gap and the Smith effect on the rim corners happen during striking. But regarding the rim, the striking process simply transforms the proto-rim into the final rim by smashing it between the two dies and the collar. Since the malformed planchet is missing metal on one side, and lacking a proper proto-rim 180 degrees opposite, nothing during the strike is going to fix that.

If the clip is small enough (and depending on the upset mill and striking machine), sometimes a little clip doesn't produce a visible Blakesley effect on the planchet, and the final coin rim seems normal opposite the clip. HOWEVER, if you are shopping for clipped coins on ebay, a coin show, or anywhere else, and you see a sizable clip but a missing Blakesley effect, that is a big red flag for a fake mint error coin.
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
United States
6597 Posts
 Posted 05/21/2024  5:52 pm  Show Profile   Check Brandmeister's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Brandmeister to your friends list
Pretty good NGC article:

https://www.ngccoin.com/news/article/586/

Mike Diamond article on Coin World:

https://www.coinworld.com/news/us-c...nghouse.html

ErrorRef.com is a very complete resource, but I found the above article the most helpful when I started on error coins. Also check out posts by Tropicalbats, he has posted many clipped planchet coins that are very well photographed and explained on CCF.
Valued Member
United States
78 Posts
 Posted 05/21/2024  8:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tyr4nt to your friends list

Quote:
Old timey upset mill
This is SUPER helpful!! I did NOT understand the process like I thought I did. Thanks!!
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
United States
7174 Posts
 Posted 05/22/2024  3:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cujohn to your friends list

Quote:
and you see a sizable clip but a missing Blakesley effect, that is a big red flag for a fake mint error coin.
A lot of times on a large clip, the Blakesley effect is not present
Page 2 of 2   Previous TopicReplies: 18 / Views: 1,016Next Topic Page 2 of 2
First Page  Showing last 15 replies.
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.


    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.38 seconds to rattle this change. Forums