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 Replies: 23 / Views: 3,600 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1116 Posts |
i have a dumb question when they fake a coin for instance this one and the real coin grades au55 how do they get the fake to match the grade of the real one.
i guess what I am saying is if there is a pcgs 09-s vdb in fine and they want to fake the same slab and coin how do they get the grade of the fake to match the grade of the real coin
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1116 Posts |
Quote:
The bottom line is that I agree with you - I would find it hard to find any reason to buy a coin from China regardless of the dealer or reputation. I will never buy a coin from china but the problem is people from all over the world are buying these coins and they are all over the place I am scared to death to buy any high dollar key date coins because you just don't know. heck I am scared to buy lower value coins because I think I might be buying fakes I have a good idea of what I am doing but they are becoming so good at this it is scary. by the way don't you have to have to sign up to the ngc site to see these photos of the coin to copy the slab |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1429 Posts |
You can register free as NGC community member and see it.
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Pillar of the Community
Norway
510 Posts |
Quote:
have a dumb question when they fake a coin for instance this one and the real coin grades au55 how do they get the fake to match the grade of the real one.
They copy what they see. They always buy an original first. So you get a new "coin" with as much detail as the one they copied. We have recently seen many copies of Norwegian coins, 2 kroner, 1 krone and 50 øre Oscar II (1874-1904). In all cases the original was a coin in grade Fine. So the copies are all in grade F, too. They are too sharp in the edges for F, but that can be sandpapered off. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1429 Posts |
Brent, I have seen the same piece sold on ebay and that is legitimate if it is "flipped". This one doesn't match the recent image and slab on NGC's site and therefore the concern. All this means that slabs need to be researched prior to purchase which is a shame. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
well we all knew NGC and ANACS slabs were copied way before they started copying PCGS slabs because of the cost of the PCGS slabs. The small holder ANACS was widely copied as was this type of NGC labels and slabs. When they perfect the PCGS slabs (they are close now to the unknowing buyer) they will really flood the market with them
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
After looking at the coins more closely I think this is the same coin, the slab may be counterfeit but the markers match. they may have bought it to copy it but the coin is the same coin Original Ebay coin rotated and marked |
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Valued Member
United States
278 Posts |
Yeah, I think it is legit. All the same, how did it rotate, and Zohar, your message is still strong and well heeded.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
like I said, the slab still may be counterfeit but I think the coin inside is the same one. They would have to remove the coin from the slab to copy it so that may be what happened here. they removed the coin from the original slab, copied the coin and label and then reslabbed the original coin in a fake slab to recoup their investment and then they will start selling the copies
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Pillar of the Community
Norway
510 Posts |
I agree with Bryan that this is likely.
Anyway I would recommend that no-one buys ANYTHING from Chinese sellers, with exeptions only for the sellers you know beforehand and have only good experiences with. I know this will exclude some honest, new sellers but that may in its turn induce them to try to clean up their compatriot's acts.
I would also recommend against selling to Chinese buyers. They need an original in order to make a good copy.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1429 Posts |
While it may not be politically correct, it's safe. I am for it. BTW - I sent a note to this seller indicating its fake. He never responded. I tried reporting to ebay and it does not let me as I was not the buyer. If it is fake, he is a real pro as I have not seen such quality reproduction. |
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Valued Member
United States
303 Posts |
I have an older NGC slab and my Barber dime rotated in the slab. I first bought it with normal placement and overtime I dropped it or threw it a couple times. It rotated about 70 deg. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1429 Posts |
Hi all,
I must admit this has been a learning experience. I reached out to NGC with the thread - received a response as follows:
"Please tell Zohar the coin has turned in the holder and the darker color is due to photography differences. There are identifying characteristics on both coins. There is a small coloration dot between the D and E on the obverse close to the rim. Also two coloration dots between the words in the legend. These are on both images so it indicates it is the same coin that left here. "
Kudos to wcg and Bryan1315 for reaching the same conclusion. This is encouraging as slabs need to retain their credibility to ensure the hobby has a future.
Good discussion.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
693 Posts |
Interesting thread! One point that I would like to add. The images may be stolen as well. An individual does not actually need a slab and or coin to list an auction.
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1040 Posts |
I doubt the coin would be rotated in a stolen image in this case, but you are right in general. Nothing to stop these fake slabbers from using a stolen image and then sending a fake slab. What are you going to do from the other side of the world when the wrong item turns up?
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Replies: 23 / Views: 3,600 |
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First Page
Posted 08/11/2009 1:41 pm
