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Mismatched Serial Numbers On Currency

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Valued Member
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 Posted 01/14/2010  12:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Siuol to your friends list
Zeewoll think about it. Each position on a sheet is given a 200,000 serial number range for each run, as I am sure you know. The serial number range starts with the highest number for that range and counts down. One serial number cylinder jams and stops rotating and the other keeps on counting down. Also I would say they are noticeable. All of the above posted notes are gem uncirculated except for the five which might only have changed hands once to get in that condition.
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 Posted 01/14/2010  02:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add zeewool to your friends list
Agreed Siuol,
Consider my statement of one week ago:

" Today, serial numbers are computer generated, but are rotated and applied mechanically, and since there are two serial numbers per note, there are two sets of mechanical tumblers 'optimally' acting together. Mistakes can and do happen with mechanical apparati though. "

The notes pictured above simply illustrate my words. I think that someone (maybe more than just one person) has misinterpreted what I referred to as 'an impossibility'.

The link that David posted near the bottom of the first page of this thread will take you to a note that contains mismatched serial numbers as those pictured above.

Unlike the notes pictured above however, the note in David's link shows the first four digits of each serial number printed in one font size and the last four digits printed in a font size approximately 10-20% larger than the first four digits.

If anyone thinks that this is a possibility, then we do not agree. I will not argue the issue of whether or not the digit tumblers are capable of instant growth in font size.
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 Posted 01/14/2010  04:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yechi7 to your friends list

Quote:
the first four digits of each serial number printed in one font size and the last four digits printed in a font size approximately 10-20% larger than the first four digits.

If anyone thinks that this is a possibility, then we do not agree. I will not argue the issue of whether or not the digit tumblers are capable of instant growth in font size.


Serials on steroids?
Valued Member
United States
106 Posts
 Posted 01/14/2010  06:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Brannenworks to your friends list
Respects, but I can't see any difference in font size. I've blown the ebay pictures up, etc.; I'm looking at very large pixels. Certainly there is no 10% difference. Sometimes I think I can see a difference in shading / tint, but there is not much difference. Could there be a difference due to the absence of rotation? Or could there be some other effect, such as a vibration among the broken digits, that would make them darker?

Uh, I'm assuming we are talking about the 6734 6125 versus 6734 5870 example on ebay.
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 Posted 01/14/2010  06:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobby131313 to your friends list
I don't see any size difference either.
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 Posted 01/14/2010  07:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobby131313 to your friends list
Mismatched-Serial-Numbers-On-Currency
Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 01/14/2010  09:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add zeewool to your friends list
Thanks Brannen, and especially you, Bobby. Evidently I need either a new monitor or glasses. I would have bet anything, I mean 'anything', that this was an altered note due to my perceived font size difference. This clearer picture makes a world of difference to me. My apologies to everyone, especially the seller. The note looks fine to me now, with exception of the asking price. I'll shut up and go away now.
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 Posted 01/14/2010  09:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oih82w8 to your friends list
I am certainly not very knowledgeable on the subject, but I find it odd that between the two pictured 5 Dollar Bills series 1977A, the serial number on the left, advanced three positions H67346122A to H67346125A. But the S/N on the right, advance from H67344731A to H67345870A, (1139 positions). Should the S/N advance at the same rate?

Maybe I am looking at this to deep?
Edited by oih82w8
01/14/2010 3:49 pm
Valued Member
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 Posted 01/14/2010  5:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Brannenworks to your friends list
Wouldn't large serial number differences be MORE common rather than less? The idea is that when one of the tumblers breaks, it should create a very large number of mismatched serial numbers, but the vast majority of them would have large number differences.

On the other hand, maybe it could be that small numbers are more common because the tumblers lose a count instead of actually getting completely stopped.

Zeewool, I think there might be an optical illusion caused by the presence of the red bar. But it would be nice to see the note in the flesh.
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 Posted 01/14/2010  7:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add zeewool to your friends list
To the rational human mind, they would, and yes, but highly complex machines seem to have minds of their own.
There are two independent (yet synchronized) sets of tumblers, each set containing 10 separate tumblers. There is a possibility of a malfunction on any individual tumbler, that may or may not transfer to the opposing set, depending on the specific problem. Most commonly, for a mismatch, 'failure to advance' (sticking of a tumbler) will be the culprit, but will not cause computerized auto shut down of the system unless the event persists for a preset repetition period. I am no a press technician, but from what I have gathered from viewing many notes of this type of error, is that 'normally', when a tumbler sticks, all subsequent numbers will also be thrown into a state of flux. This is strictly an assumption on my part however.



There are so many different malfunctions and and errors possible, it is mind boggling.
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 Posted 01/14/2010  7:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add zeewool to your friends list
By the way, I have seen mismatches where only the prefix letters differ, or the suffix letters differ. Just about anything is possible with a few exceptions, and I thought I was seeing one of those exceptions earlier in this thread. My mistake.
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273 Posts
 Posted 01/14/2010  9:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Siuol to your friends list
@ zeewool I did misunderstand what you were saying. I thought you said that the number difference was impossible, however you were talking about something else. Sorry
@ oih82w8 I agree with you that it is strange the left serial advances only 3 numbers while the right serial advances much more. I would think that the left would remain stationary given that it is the same FRB, run, series, and position.
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 Posted 01/14/2010  10:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add zeewool to your friends list
You guys are just on a totally different wavelength from me, and I do not mean to say that your thinking is wrong. It is correct if you will remember a few things that I said earlier in this post.

TPGs can be wrong, so don't look at the TPG label, look at the note.

The two five dollar notes pictured are not both 1977A as the labels claim, (only one is 1977A). These two notes are not of the same run.
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 Posted 01/14/2010  11:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add zeewool to your friends list
Okay, once again, I am in error. They are of the same run. I was looking at a five and a two. I think that I had better stay away from this forum for quite a while until I can get a new monitor, glasses, and something for my head. Sorry everyone.
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 Posted 01/15/2010  06:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yechi7 to your friends list

Quote:
Zeewool, I think there might be an optical illusion caused by the presence of the red bar. But it would be nice to see the note in the flesh.


I was thinking the same thing myself when I first saw zeewol's comment. The serials on the right side did look slightly larger when he pointed it out. But then I thought that it's an optical illusion because of the red bars.

Bobby (or others):
How are you enlarging the pics from ebay?

I'm using Firefox. I used to be able to save the pic & blow it up with a picture viewer. Then I started to use a Firefox plug-in called image zoom that would enlarge a pic by clicking on it with the left mouse button & scrolling the mouse wheel.

But lately this is not working at all on pics in ebay as they seem to have turned their pics into some kind of javascript. How are you enlarging them?
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