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 Replies: 19 / Views: 6,827 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1733 Posts |
I don't think there's anything wrong with him or the auction. He's just creatively marketing his product and building hype but there's no lie to what he's doing. He's also listed other rotated die items for comparison, but they are mostly in way better shape.
I could pull out my '25 nickel call him Fred, and post ads around the net that Fred is for sale. I could have him graded by PCGS at 63/64 and claim that Fred is a Champion Stallion Nickel. You do a keyword search a year later and you'll find Fred the Champion Stallion Nickel disappeared from the net after being privately sold sometime during a BIN listing at 11000....
You bid and buy and buy Fred at Torex for a mere 7900 dollars and feel fulfilled that your ownership of Fred has fulfilled you collection.
In the meantime my advanced and creative marketing has netted me a few bucks for minimal effort.
Goodbye Fred, Hello Tahitian vacation....
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Valued Member
United States
89 Posts |
Did any of you read the auction? "This coin is dubbed the victory dime because the "Coin has a coinage die axis or 180 degree rotation to symbolize the reversal in the war effort in Europe" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dime_(...ve_editions). This coin is also 1 of only two Canadian 10 cent coins known to have the coinage die axis." He says right in it what its all about. It isn't clever marketing, its clever spinning of the truth. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
Quote:
I don't think there's anything wrong with him or the auction. I would have to disagree with that if the seller deliberately altered a Wikipedia entry with false information in an attempt to make himself appear credible. jg86 noted that the entry was added on May 1 and it was just re-edited today to remove the information. It is one thing to hype your sales but manipulating Wiki to boost your own auction is very deceptive  |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
693 Posts |
Imagination is a wonderful thing.......to my recollection there are 31 different 10 cent mintage years that have coinage alignment. Too bad he did not mention my "upset dies" 67,65 or 64 5 cents.............pity LOLOL
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1733 Posts |
I give as much credibility to wikipedia as I do to ebay... as far as I'm concerned it's almost useless as a credible source on a standalone basis. Sure he's spinning it, but I've said before and I'll say again that anyone with serious money to spend on coins isn't going to be tricked or fooled by a clever use of vocabulary. They'll make an offer on the coin based on the true facts. Don't think I'm saying I'd buy from him. I'm not. But he's also got a rotated die dime for sale and he's not forged the coin as far as I can see. Building a history for your marketing push isn't a bad thing and revisionist history occurs all through various product lines. HP, IBM, Ford and a few others come to mind. I'm not saying he's a good person, I don't know him, but I don't think anything he's done is illegal. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
686 Posts |
Wikipedia can be credible. Just, when you read some skeptical, determine the source of it. I found it interesting that the Wikipedia article compared his coin to the 1967 centennial and the 2001 volunteer coin. As for Ugly's comment that he is doing nothing wrong other than being creative, I believe he is. He is lying. He is stating that this coin was made to commemorate the reversal of the war in Europe in favour of the allied forces. I believe he had previously stated somewhere, maybe in the ebay autction (although I'm not sure), that the dies were set this way by Emanuel Hahn. At any rate, he has clearly dictated that this coin was purposely made this way by the Mint to celebrate the Liberation of France. This is not true, and it is beyond creative. There is a difference between a coinage "error", and a coin being purposely struck as coinage. In my opinion, the coin is truly a unique coin if the Mint had purposely created it this way and had the history behind it that he indicates. If it was not purposely done, which it wasn't, it becomes just another upset die. Further, I submit that he is lying with his receipt for the coin. If it is legitimate, why is everything blurred. That receipt, to me, looks no different than a receipt I have at home for my big screen tv which I bought from a local AV shop. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1733 Posts |
Not to split the proverbial hair, but we don't know that it wasn't intentionally done, we just assume it's "another die error" - I mean I assume that it's just another error. But I can't disprove a claim to the contrary. We can say it's all lies and we might be right. I sure can't prove it though. I can't prove it wasn't in someones pocket in outer space either.
Did you know Fred the Champion Stallion Nickel was once held in hand by none other than former Ontario Premier Leslie Frost and that actor Michael Ironside has also held it? (One of these statements is true, you figure out which one and disprove the other).
Anyhow, he can say what he wants unless you can actually disprove him. Unsubstantiated claims WILL NOT ADD TO THE VALUE.
He's got all the charm of a snake oil salesman with his claims though. He might as well have said it was the ten cent piece of the Saviour himself for all his ability to back it up. As skeptical and suspicious as I am personally, I still won't call him a liar because I just don't have the proof.
P.S. Fred is not for sale.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
686 Posts |
Here's a question for everyone. Assuming that this coin wasn't the reason that the Allies won WWII, what is it worth? Meaning, what is it worth if it's just "another die error"?
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
1248 Posts |
I have two questions which probably only the seller can answer:
1 how did he establish CV ?
2 WHY is the rest of the business where he presumably purchased it all blurred out?
H
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
686 Posts |
hhb, I still stand by my view that he is trying to pay off his plasma tv he bought in 2002 when they were way more expensive! Speaking of descriptions, I just stumbled across this: http://cgi.ebay.com/1936-DOT-25-CEN...em35a9478e46I love the line "ALSO IT HAS A CHANCE TO GO UP IN VALUE SINCE THE 1936 DOT PENNY SOLD FOR $350,000.......... .THIS MAY BE TIME FOR THE 1936 DOT QUARTER TO REALLY GO UP IN PRICE." |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1733 Posts |
I suppose you could buy up all the dot quarters you can get your hands on and melt them to drive up the price on the rest... that's about the only way these are going to sell for 350K a pop.
@HH just ask him, fire him a note - we need entertainment. Tell him truthfully you wish to discuss his answer publicly.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1733 Posts |
So at the end of the day the market set the value for that coin at 650 dollars... reasonable for a true 180 die error in that condition.
See what I mean; unsubstantiated rumours don't sell expensive coins, facts do.
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Valued Member
Canada
426 Posts |
And it only cost him $4000 to make that $650 !
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
686 Posts |
Hopefully it's enough to cover the debt that the AVARAE FUND has with Revenue Canada.
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Valued Member
Canada
75 Posts |
i'll go to an auction soon like to see what I can buy .?never know
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Replies: 19 / Views: 6,827 |
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First Page
Posted 05/11/2010 12:43 pm
