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 Replies: 47 / Views: 6,568 |
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Valued Member
United States
218 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by BERRY4402
Not only was Ageka correct, I'll go a step further and claim that some of these (top 3-4) TPG allow coins that have had a coin conservation operation done to it. Can't prove it, but I have gotten a lot of slabbed coins and I just get the feeling the coin has been "cleaned"
All of the major slabbing companies admit (most on their websites) that they slab some cleaned coins. What the reputable services will not do is slab a coin that has been harshly cleaned. The definition of harshly cleaned is open for debate, but that is how it is worded. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1247 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by The_Cave_Troll
quote:
Originally posted by longnine009
I'll use TPGs again if and when they ever start to issue authentication certificates--and I'm not holding my breath either waiting on that one. Otherwise--NOT A CENT IN TRIBUTE! 
I have great news! NCS offers exactly such a service. Here is the text of their website:
"Authentication and Encapsulation
Under this service, NCS numismatists will authenticate, attribute varieties, identify mint errors and encapsulate most coins, tokens and medals. Variety attribution and error coin identification are included at no additional charge. NCS will not assign a grade to the item under this service. Items submitted for this service are encapsulated as genuine only."
http://www.ncscoin.com/auth_grading/index.asp
Thank You Cave Troll but "encapsulated" to me is "umbilical cord to mommy." Can never take it out of the slab and put it in a holder that I actually like without losing the authentication. They, or NGC do issue certificates but they are grading certs and only for large medals or mulitiple thalers or anything that they can't get into a slab. I'll consider that should I ever start collecting Swedish plate money.  Edited by longnine009
08/15/2006 11:12 pm
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Valued Member
United States
218 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by longnine009
quote:
Originally posted by The_Cave_Troll
quote:
Originally posted by longnine009
I'll use TPGs again if and when they ever start to issue authentication certificates--and I'm not holding my breath either waiting on that one. Otherwise--NOT A CENT IN TRIBUTE!
I have great news! NCS offers exactly such a service. Here is the text of their website:
"Authentication and Encapsulation
Under this service, NCS numismatists will authenticate, attribute varieties, identify mint errors and encapsulate most coins, tokens and medals. Variety attribution and error coin identification are included at no additional charge. NCS will not assign a grade to the item under this service. Items submitted for this service are encapsulated as genuine only."
http://www.ncscoin.com/auth_grading/index.asp
Thanks Cave Troll but that not a certificate it's still in slab and the authentican will be lost should I happen to like a different kind of holder. They do issue grading certificates too but only for large medals or mulitiple thalers or anything that they can't get into a slab.
I always thought the presentation method and protection offered by the slab was one of the biggest selling points for TPGrading, but this obviously isn't true for you. One of the good things about NCS authentication is that it costs about half what grading costs. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1247 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by The_Cave_Troll
quote:
Originally posted by longnine009
quote:
Originally posted by The_Cave_Troll
quote:
Originally posted by longnine009
I'll use TPGs again if and when they ever start to issue authentication certificates--and I'm not holding my breath either waiting on that one. Otherwise--NOT A CENT IN TRIBUTE!
I have great news! NCS offers exactly such a service. Here is the text of their website:
"Authentication and Encapsulation
Under this service, NCS numismatists will authenticate, attribute varieties, identify mint errors and encapsulate most coins, tokens and medals. Variety attribution and error coin identification are included at no additional charge. NCS will not assign a grade to the item under this service. Items submitted for this service are encapsulated as genuine only."
http://www.ncscoin.com/auth_grading/index.asp
Thanks Cave Troll but that not a certificate it's still in slab and the authentican will be lost should I happen to like a different kind of holder. They do issue grading certificates too but only for large medals or mulitiple thalers or anything that they can't get into a slab.
I always thought the presentation method and protection offered by the slab was one of the biggest selling points for TPGrading, but this obviously isn't true for you.
One of the good things about NCS authentication is that it costs about half what grading costs.
A black Capital with gold letters cost even less. 
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1247 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by Eric
As for whether big graders get better grades than little graders? I dunno. Is this true? Does that really happen? It's my understanding that graders don't know whose coins are whose and that the whole grading aspect is relatively anonymous...?
I believe they claim their graders don't know who is submitting coins. But why do they have to? When a grader gets a box of 100 DMPL Morgans he knows it's a big fish. It doens't matter who it is. It doesn't even matter whether the big fish is a collector or a dealer. Happy big fish generate profits. I think the graders can figure out what they're suppose to do. |
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
2078 Posts |
And happy big fish make for happy big boss Coincidentally of course I was fired after refusing two big multinationals an environmental certification and both within the same month The coincidence was of course a coincidence because an auditor is absolutely independant |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1247 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by ageka
And happy big fish make for happy big boss
Coincidentally of course I was fired after refusing two big multinationals an environmental certification and both within the same month
The coincidence was of course a coincidence because an auditor is absolutely independant
You have much diginity. That's something that a Corporate CEO can't even pronounce without hurting himself.
Systems go from serving to self-serving, to rot from within, to attacks from without, to decline. Along with a lot of "reforms" and lots of "I'm shocked, shocked to find gambling going on." (Louie/Casablanca) along the way.
The only difference between posters on the Internet today attacking TPGs and Goth tribes hurling rocks at the gates of Rome is scale.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
751 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by longnine009
The only difference between posters on the Internet today attacking TPGs and Goth tribes hurling rocks at the gates of Rome is scale.
I like to think we have better hygiene. |
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Valued Member
 Australia
222 Posts |
Here is a revised barebone skeleton summary of my article so far. Any advice, corrections, or further ideas are welcome. Adv of TPG: -Slabbed coins are genuine. -Slabbed coins provide a ball park estimate of the grade. More confidence buying from ebay. -Some protection against theft. Disadv of TPG: -Costly; -Inconsistency in grading between and within grading companies. -Sliding of grading standards over time. -Possible favouritism in grading: big dealers get better grades than the little people. Adv of the Numerical System -Less confusing, less verbose. People can't make up new grades Choice, BU, Lustrous UNC, Practically UNC, etc. Disadv of the Numerical System -Can't qualify a coin by a single number: Must grade by wear alone, and then mention any imperfections or handsome lustre. Introduction of the qualifier "Nice". -No dual grades; -Coin in aEF sounds like its better than one in VF-35. Edited by Eric
08/17/2006 05:55 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1247 Posts |
Sorry. Motor control problems this morning.  Edited by longnine009
08/17/2006 06:02 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1247 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by texasmick
quote:
Originally posted by longnine009
The only difference between posters on the Internet today attacking TPGs and Goth tribes hurling rocks at the gates of Rome is scale.
I like to think we have better hygiene.
We also get to pay tribute to the empire with debased money.  http://www.producepatch.com/cat1.jpg |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1247 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by Eric
Here is a revised barebone skeleton summary of my article so far. Any advice, corrections, or further ideas are welcome.
Adv of TPG:
-Slabbed coins are genuine.
-Slabbed coins provide a ball park estimate of the grade. More confidence buying from ebay.
-Some protection against theft.
Disadv of TPG:
-Costly;
they ride up like some white knight on the charger to save everyone.
-Inconsistency in grading between and within grading companies.
-Sliding of grading standards over time.
-Possible favouritism in grading: big dealers get better grades than the little people.
Adv of the Numerical System
-Less confusing, less verbose. People can't make up new grades Choice, BU, Lustrous UNC, Practically UNC, etc.
Disadv of the Numerical System
-Can't qualify a coin by a single number: Must grade by wear alone, and then mention any imperfections or handsome lustre. Introduction of the qualifier "Nice".
-No dual grades;
-Coin in aEF sounds like its better than one in VF-35.
Well now I can't find it. Didn't someone mention that they though the existence of TPGs tended to have a dumbing down effect on grading? I believe it does. They have also made it so complicated that it discourages people from trying to learn it at all. IMO, it's not a coincidence but standard issue PRS. Cause a Problem, get a Reaction, offer a Solution by which you benefit. And they certainly do.
If you take the coin out of the holder you will lose everything you paid for. This does not happen if you have a certificate a.k.a. "cert."
Edited by longnine009
08/17/2006 06:37 am
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
2078 Posts |
TPG's also rely on the fact that some people play the crackit out and re-submit it game When you see in some categories a coin jump from 1200 to 3000 $ on a single grade point it is worth the game I have two coins that might be worth submittal from a European point of view to sell the coins to an American I got a Double Eagle which is MS66 or better and I got a 1 Dollar goldcoin which might be authentic and MS66 or better On both coins if I am right the difference in price would be huge .  In order to edge my bet I will wait though untill gold is at 1600$ an ounce |
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
2078 Posts |
There is another disadvantage of the numerical system which is not obvious to an outsider
That is clustering of grades around certain numbers like eg
MS63-MS64 in Double Eagles
They try to make people believe MS64 is a fantastic investment grade
Somebody reported he bought 250 pieces at MS64 and when gold was up
50% he sold and got a gain like of only 10%
The rest went into commission money and the fact that premium does not follow price of melt
When gold went up 50% some premiums went down by more then half
like from 60% to 25%
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1247 Posts |
There are problems with both numerical and adjective grading. Adjectives are spin control and numerical offers no break down of what your paying for. What is the purpose of grading in the first place? To describe a coin to someone who is unable to see the coin? I would submit that not only have slabs exhausted themselves, so too has grading. Many if not most can see the coin now from images--the technology of which is only going to get better. If the images are honest, IMO, you can get a far better idea of what your getting into with a decent image than a string of "monster" "atomic" "splashes of earth tones--send money." Or from a engima number. I really, for the life of me, can't understand what it is that collectors see in slabs? You have to grade the coin yourself anyway if your going to follow the advice of "Buy the coin and not the slab." All they are really doing that is useful is authentication. They are simply making people buy BS to get something that is actually useful. http://www.producepatch.com/cat1.jpg Edited by longnine009
08/17/2006 6:37 pm
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Replies: 47 / Views: 6,568 |
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Posted 08/15/2006 11:03 pm
